Re: [Lime] Progress on LIME Connectionless documents

"Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <> Mon, 03 July 2017 19:42 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id C78D8126CC7 for <>; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 12:42:54 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -14.521
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key)
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0oLNlX2a8FPH for <>; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 12:42:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ( []) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EEA4213171F for <>; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 12:42:49 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple;;; l=29860; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1499110970; x=1500320570; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=YGj9kLdyinPlhSnuoS7sK3SwGi37s4N6vsRfHKz/Q2A=; b=GbObWG0d1vaAgaQj1ce3FLxz+XZEapz4nm0zo2wz6931Z0yGwXvvsbQf g/ACugo4MF7jHiaMbkE7pSWryDIwvBh2wc37Tb0J2IM9g/YXZ2f9eBkyO HlBdzNZsdM19En36W+tfQ2Mqis26Em3/slzgy7J6MD3G6Ycm6bfoh1RVv Y=;
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CYAAAPnlpZ/4YNJK1cGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgm9qY4EOB41+mh6NUYIRIQEMhW4CGoJhPxgBAgEBAQEBAQFrKIU?= =?us-ascii?q?ZAgEDAQEhRQYEBxACAQg/AwICAh8GCxQRAgQOBYlLTAMVEAOvcoImhzINhAUBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEYBYMng0yBYSuCeYJXgX2DKTCCEh8FiUgHiFa?= =?us-ascii?q?MHzsCh0WHUoRoggyFSoNxhlaJMiGCHok+AR84gQp1FUkSAYRHORyBZnYBh36BD?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQ?=
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,305,1496102400"; d="scan'208,217";a="265487605"
Received: from ([]) by with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 03 Jul 2017 19:42:44 +0000
Received: from ( []) by (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v63JghFi032669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Jul 2017 19:42:44 GMT
Received: from ( by ( with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 15:42:43 -0400
Received: from ([]) by ([]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 15:42:43 -0400
From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <>
To: Greg Mirsky <>
CC: "Benoit Claise (bclaise)" <>, "" <>
Thread-Topic: [Lime] Progress on LIME Connectionless documents
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2017 19:42:43 +0000
Message-ID: <>
References: <> <> <> <>
In-Reply-To: <>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1
x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted
x-originating-ip: []
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B999A189AF3F43C58C5942AA196BE65Aciscocom_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Archived-At: <>
Subject: Re: [Lime] Progress on LIME Connectionless documents
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Layer Independent OAM Management in Multi-Layer Environment \(LIME\) discussion list." <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 19:42:55 -0000

Hello, Greg,

The WG held real-time editathon interims in which we went comment by comment, many of those from you:

After that, the editors have been diligently working through all the comments received, including all of yours (from WGLC and from before). There have been several iterations of document revision as all those comments were addressed and edits incorporated. As I had mentioned, addressing a comment does not necessarily imply changing the document — it can mean reply explaining why not.

I think that when you say “I've learned that my comments not taken into consideration” you are mischaracterizing the story. I witnessed the authors considering and discussing your comments, time and again. And when you further add “no one asked my opinion about the changes that went into the current version”, the editors asked the WG as a whole about the changes, we discussed them in person and in interims, and the process announces new revisions on list for interested parties to comment.

That said, and most importantly, if you feel you still have technical comments or unaddressed concerns on the current versions, I’d urge you to share those with clarity on the list. The editors and WG as a whole can review them and reply. There is no need to wait, the sooner things are addressed the better.

The goal of the WG is to produce quality and timely documents.


— Carlos.

On Jun 29, 2017, at 1:28 PM, Greg Mirsky <<>> wrote:

Hi Carlos,
WGLC from January 2017? Considering that last time I've shared comments with authors at the meeting in Chicago, I'd consider that that WGLC had failed to clear the bar. But if WG chairs and AD believe differently, then the drafts were in the WG LC for five months.

As I've mentioned, I've shared my comments at the meetings, on the list and conference calls. Regrettably, I've learned that my comments not taken into consideration and too many misconceptions stayed in the documents from one version to another after I've pointed them out. I consider it professional courtesy to reach directly to reviewers to confirm that proposed changes address their concerns. Sadly, no one asked my opinion about the changes that went into the current version.

As I was not given time to review the latest version I took rather quick look at the connectionless OAM document and found the following:

   The level in 'oam-layers' indicate whether related OAM test point is
   The level in oam-layers indicate whether related oam test point is in
   client layer(lower layer described in section 3.3<>)3>), server layer
   (upper layer described in section 3.3<>) or the same layer as the
   current test point under Test point Locations.

I'm having hard time parsing this text and hope you can explain as you seem to be fine with it. And when I've followed on the reference to section 3.3

I've found that what I've commented on, suggested to change and authors verbally agreed to do still in place - {-1, 0, 1} model to indicate server-client layers.

But, as I've pointed many times, relationships between Test Points on different layers may be more complex and may skip some layers (Ethernet OAM with its 8 layers

in MEG may be one example). For the Test Points on the given OAM layer, notifications may be coming from different OAM layers down below. Current model,

as I read the text, does not allow such scenario.

But since I'm the only one who is, and frankly, has been commenting on these drafts throughout the time of the WG, I'll prepare thorough comments for the IETF LC.

I had privilege working and observing work of all authors and learned from them a lot, got to respect their professionalism. Cannot understand what happened this time.



On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 3:02 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <<>> wrote:

I am astonished at your statement.


Your comments to the WGLCs:

After that the authors worked with you to incorporate your comments. Subsequent revisions prompted more comments from you, all of which were appropriately disposed of:

After that, the chairs gave you additional time and provided specific review to subsequent comments:

A disposition to a comment means that they could have resulted in a change, or not.

IPR call coincinging with Adoption call:

I hope that clarifies?


— Carlos.

On Jun 28, 2017, at 4:47 PM, Greg Mirsky <<>> wrote:

Hi Carlos and Ron,
thank you for the update on these drafts. I haven't seen IPR poll, WGLC on any of these. Have I missed them? I do have comments I'd like to share. Or should I wait for the IETF LC?

Regards, Greg

On Jun 28, 2017 1:27 PM, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <<>> wrote:
Dear WG,

We will be progressing the LIME Connectionless documents, submitting them to our AD.

Please see the respective write-ups at:


Carlos & Ron.

Lime mailing list<>

Carlos Pignataro,<>

“Sometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to make myself sound more photosynthesis."