Re: [manet] Recharter Discussion

[Thomas Heide Clausen <[e-mail]>]

> On 26 avr. 2016, at 22:21, Justin Dean <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> Thomas I understand your concerns but we have mostly gone over this before in previous meetings.

The IETF conducts is business on mailing lists.

My recollection is that the strawman charter was presented once in a WG meeting, then the chairs did not animate any charter discussion for several IETFs, on the list (nor was the charter discussed in subsequent meetings) - until this present "urgency" was declared (by the chairs) to the WG.

> The AD will not allow us to meet at the next IETF meeting if we do not have a new charter and new work items. 

That does not negate my point, however, which was that:

>> it should be established on the list that there are meaningful things to do, and there's a meaningful critical mass of people to be doing those things, before a (virtual) interim is called. Brainstorming on a teleconference is rarely a constructive way to spend time


Thomas

> To your point it's imparative that the discussion continues on list about the charter.  With that in mind here is a suggested edit of the previously floated charter, with comments in () with JWD tags.
> 
> The purpose of the MANET working group is to standardize IP routing protocol functionality suitable for wireless routing application within both static and dynamic topologies with increased dynamics due to node motion or other factors.  
> 
> Approaches are intended to be relatively lightweight in nature, suitable for multiple hardware and wireless environments, and address scenarios where MANETs are deployed at the edges of an IP infrastructure. Hybrid mesh infrastructures (e.g., a mixture of fixed and mobile routers) should also be supported by MANET specifications and management features.
> 
> The MANET WG is responsible for the maintenance of OLSRv2, AODVv2 (JWD TBD), DLEP and NHPD. Of particular interest: security enhancements, and encryption security extensions for RFC5444. (JWD we may want to break this out of the WG and make a new MANET Sec working group to grab the attention of those interested in security and get their participation.)
> 
> The MANET WG will standardize a multicast MANET protocol framework based on previous work and lessons learned for scoped forwarding within MANET networks.  As part of this framework the WG will produce a well defined MANET multicast forwarding information base.
> 
> The WG will produce an informational draft outlining challenges and best practices for deploying and managing MANET networks. 
> 
> The MANET WG will interact with the PIM working group on issues relating to the multicast work.  The WG will also pay attention to other IETF and IRTF work that is addressing topics related to MANET environments.
> 
> In summary, the WG will develop the following drafts:
> 
> MANET Management Document (Informational)
> MANET Maintenance 
>  - RFC5444 Security extension (Standards) (JWD possibly move this to new working group)
> MANET Multicast
>  - Multicast FIB (Standards)
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Thomas Clausen <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I believe that an virtual interim is premature: a teleconference is, mechanically, less inclusive than are mailing list discussions (time-zones, other commitments, requirement of synchronicity of participation, etc.).
>> 
>> Furthermore....
>> 
>> Until such time that a strawman charter is proposed, updated to reflect the reality of the group as stipulated by the AD and by Mr. Dean, as well as additional charter items emerging on the list,  and with relatively broad and deep support for the included items by the working group, having an interim - virtual or otherwise - is not constructive.
>> 
>> In other words, it should be established on the list that there are meaningful things to do, and there's a meaningful critical mass of people to be doing those things, before a (virtual) interim is called. Brainstorming on a teleconference is rarely a constructive way to spend time.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Thomas
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On 22 Apr 2016, at 17:50, Stan Ratliff <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello WG, 
>>> 
>>> Do we need to hold an interim meeting (via WebEX) to discuss? I'd like to get opinions on the list about that. We'll need a couple of weeks to schedule, but we can do that. 
>>> 
>>> One other point inline: 
>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Dearlove, Christopher (UK) <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>> Multicast is the obvious top item. Lots of possible approaches, time to discuss.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Gateways for AODVv2 at Standard is obviously not possible since AODVv2 is going to be Experimental at most.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Management we did of course have an NHDP/OLSRv2 draft killed by AD. Which since NHDP/OLSRv2 us all we have (SMF excepted) that was a bit tricky.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> I would have to make an IPR declaration to say some of what I might have to say about encryption. Not today.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Understood. But please remember - there's only about a 5-week gap now before the charter needs to be complete in order for the WG to meet in Berlin. 
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Stan
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Missing from the list is any work on OLSRv2 (or NHDP). MT-OLSRv2 is experimental. That would need implementation tests to advance to PS. Anyone interested in that (I’m not saying I can)?
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> More broadly on OLSRv2 there are various things that could be done, but what is really needed is people with a real application. Any that exist were frightened away from this group.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> 
>>>> Christopher Dearlove
>>>> Senior Principal Engineer
>>>> BAE Systems Applied Intelligence Laboratories
>>>> __________________________________________________________________________
>>>> 
>>>> T:  [phone]  |  E: [e-mail]
>>>> 
>>>> BAE Systems Applied Intelligence, Chelmsford Technology Park, Great Baddow, Chelmsford, Essex CM2 8HN.
>>>> www.baesystems.com/ai
>>>> 
>>>> BAE Systems Applied Intelligence Limited
>>>> Registered in England & Wales No: 01337451
>>>> 
>>>> Registered Office: Surrey Research Park, Guildford, Surrey, GU2 7YP
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> From: manet [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Justin Dean
>>>> Sent: 22 April 2016 16:07
>>>> To: [e-mail]
>>>> Subject: [manet] Recharter Discussion
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
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>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> I'll start things off by floating the draft re-charter which was presented in Prague.  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The purpose of the MANET working group is to standardize IP routing protocol functionality suitable for wireless routing application within both static and dynamic topologies with increased dynamics due to node motion or other factors.  
>>>>  
>>>> Approaches are intended to be relatively lightweight in nature, suitable for multiple hardware and wireless environments, and address scenarios where MANETs are deployed at the edges of an IP infrastructure. Hybrid mesh infrastructures (e.g., a mixture of fixed and mobile routers) should also be supported by MANET specifications and management features.
>>>>  
>>>> The MANET WG is responsible for the maintenance of OLSRv2, AODVv2, DLEP and NHPD. Of particular interest: border behavior between MANET networks and fixed IP network infrastructures, enhance AODVv2 gateway functionality; security enhancements, encryption security extensions for RFC5444. 
>>>>  
>>>> The MANET WG will standardize a multicast MANET protocol framework based on previous work and lessons learned for scoped forwarding within MANET networks.  As part of this framework the WG will produce a well defined MANET multicast forwarding information base.
>>>>  
>>>> The WG will produce an informational draft outlining challenges and best practices for deploying and managing MANET networks.
>>>>  
>>>> The MANET WG will interact with the PIM working group on issues relating to the multicast work.  The WG will also pay attention to other IETF and IRTF work that is addressing topics related to MANET environments.
>>>>  
>>>> In summary, the WG will develop the following drafts:
>>>>  
>>>> MANET Management Document (Informational)
>>>> MANET Maintenance 
>>>>  - RFC5444 Security extension (Standards)
>>>>  - Enhanced AODVv2 gateway extension (Standards)
>>>> MANET Multicast
>>>>  - Multicast FIB (Standards)
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> This will likely be considered too broad to pass.  We will likely need to cut some and focus the work.  For me personally I know I have the time and backing to work on the Multicast piece.  
>>>>  
>>>> Justin
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