Re: [MEDIACTRL] Re: Requirements Comment

[Eric Burger <[e-mail]>]

Actually, H.323, ISDN, SS7, and non-RFC 1149 compliant carrier pigeon are
all out of scope.

We can revisit those bearer technologies at a future date.


On 3/20/07 3:37 PM, "Steve Buko" <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Ok.  This is a very basic decision that the group needs to make IMO.
> Apparently I am late to the party and this decision may have already
> been made, but I would like everyone to revisit.  It seems to me that we
> are biting off a whole lot more than we really need to.
> 
> App Server 3PCC signaling has already been defined in RFC 3725 - "Best
> Current Practices for Third Party Call Control (3pcc) in the Session
> Initiation Protocol (SIP)".
> 
> I really don't see the need for this workgroup to define this level of
> operation.  I do think the group must define how the media control
> protocol identifies the call leg (SIP,H.323,ISDN,ISUP,etc) when sending
> media control protocol bodies to the MS.
> 
> Steve Buko 
> 
> 
> 
> |-----Original Message-----
> |From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]]
> |Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 3:24 PM
> |To: [e-mail]
> |Subject: RE: [MEDIACTRL] Re: Requirements Comment
> |
> |I'm more or less on the same wavelength as Lorenzo. I don't think we
> |should ignore the topic of call control signaling, since there is a
> |relationship. I feel it should be in scope, although there could be
> |different ways to handle that (requirements or illustrations or
> |assumptions).
> |
> |Gary
> |
> |-----Original Message-----
> |From: Steve Buko [mailto:[e-mail]]
> |Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 10:05 AM
> |To: Even, Roni; Eric Burger; [e-mail]
> |Subject: RE: [MEDIACTRL] Re: Requirements Comment
> |
> |Right.  I think it all boils down to who owns this.
> |My opinion is that this is not in scope for this group.  This is not
> |specific to media control.
> |
> |I really don't see this as being much different than a SIP AS running
> in
> |3PCC.  We don't need to define how an AS handles 3PCC and how it
> |establishes the media.
> |
> |In the SIP 3PCC example, the inbound SIP INVITE comes to the AS and it
> |creates a new call leg to the MS with a separate INVITE.  The INVITE to
> |the MS contains the SDP from the remote UA (or a modified version of
> |it).  In the end, the SDP in the 200OK from the MS is sent to the
> remote
> |UA.  Media flows between the remote UA and the MS.  I don't think the
> |media control framework should try to define this process.
> |
> |The media control framework should only define how the AS interacts
> with
> |the MS to establish a control path.  The media control protocol should
> |define the language used to control the media server using the media
> |control framework.
> |
> |
> |Steve Buko
> |
> |
> ||-----Original Message-----
> ||From: Even, Roni [mailto:[e-mail]]
> ||Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 2:55 PM
> ||To: Steve Buko; Eric Burger; [e-mail]
> ||Subject: RE: [MEDIACTRL] Re: Requirements Comment
> ||
> ||This is a good example.
> ||
> ||You have an h.323 call leg from the H.323 UA to the AS (H.225+H.245).
> ||The AS uses SIP to the MS for media server control (I think we are not
> ||defining media control but media server control).
> ||
> ||Now the H.323 UA will send an Open logical channel to the AS. The AS
> ||needs to respond with a transport address for the media in the Open
> ||Logical Channel ack. From where does the AS get this address. My view
> ||that it need to get it from the MS and this is the reason for the
> ||requirement.
> ||
> ||Roni
> ||
> ||
> ||> -----Original Message-----
> ||> From: Steve Buko [mailto:[e-mail]]
> ||> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 3:47 PM
> ||> To: Eric Burger; [e-mail]
> ||> Subject: RE: [MEDIACTRL] Re: Requirements Comment
> ||>
> ||> Another quick example might be an H.323 AS.
> ||> It would use SIP only to establish the media control framework path.
> ||>
> ||> Steve Buko
> ||>
> ||>
> ||> |-----Original Message-----
> ||> |From: Steve Buko [mailto:[e-mail]]
> ||> |Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 2:38 PM
> ||> |To: Eric Burger; [e-mail]
> ||> |Subject: RE: [MEDIACTRL] Re: Requirements Comment
> ||> |
> ||> |IMO we need to keep the MCF (media control framework) and the MCP
> ||(media
> ||> |control protocol) separate and as open as possible.
> ||> |
> ||> |I think there are multiple use cases here.  One that comes to mind
> |is
> ||> |PSTN / ISUP, etc.
> ||> |In this scenario, RTP and SIP are not used for call control or
> media
> ||> |transport.  The AS will be managing the call control external to
> the
> ||> |MCF.  The AS will use the MCF and MCP to control the media server
> ||only.
> ||> |
> ||> |
> ||> |My view is that the MCF should not be defined to handle call
> control
> ||> |signaling.  The MCF should be defined only for the transport of the
> ||MCP.
> ||> |
> ||> |The AS's call control signaling and media transport negotiation
> ||should
> ||> |be out of scope for this workgroup.
> ||> |
> ||> |
> ||> |
> ||> |Steve Buko
> ||> |
> ||> |
> ||> ||-----Original Message-----
> ||> ||From: Eric Burger [mailto:[e-mail]]
> ||> ||Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 2:30 PM
> ||> ||To: [e-mail]
> ||> ||Subject: [MEDIACTRL] Re: Requirements Comment
> ||> ||
> ||> ||I missed that one. IMHO, the AS has no need nor right to know the
> ||RTP
> ||> ||address of the endpoint nor the termination address of the media
> ||> |server.
> ||> ||What is the use case?
> ||> ||
> ||> ||--
> ||> ||Sent from my wireless e-mail device. Sorry if terse.  We all need
> ||> ||lemonade: see <http://www.standardstrack.com/ietf/lemonade> for
> |what
> ||> ||lemonade is.
> ||> ||
> ||> ||-----Original Message-----
> ||> ||From: Steve Buko <[e-mail]>
> ||> ||To: Eric Burger; [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> ||> ||Sent: Tue Mar 20 06:16:38 2007
> ||> ||Subject: Requirements Comment
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||I have a general issue regarding our current set of requirements
> |and
> ||> ||thought it might be a good idea to get a thread going on this
> prior
> ||to
> ||> ||our Thursday meeting.
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||draft-even-media-server-req-02.txt
> ||> ||<http://www.standardstrack.com/ietf/mediactrl/draft-even-media-
> ||server-
> ||> ||req-02.txt>  states the following
> ||> ||
> ||> ||"10.  The MS shall supply the media addresses (RTP transport
> ||address)
> ||> ||to be used to the AS"
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||draft-dolly-xcon-mediacntrlframe-03.txt
> ||> ||<http://www.standardstrack.com/ietf/mediactrl/draft-dolly-xcon-
> ||> ||mediacntrlframe-03.txt>  states the following
> ||> ||
> ||> ||"REQ-MCP-11 - SIP/SDP SHALL be used to establish and modify RTP
> ||> ||connections to a Media Server"
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||In my view, we have two main problems to solve.
> ||> ||
> ||> ||1)     define a media control framework that will be used to
> ||transmit a
> ||> ||given media control protocol.
> ||> ||
> ||> ||2)    define a media control protocol used to control a media
> ||server.
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||I agree that the media control framework should use SIP/SDP to
> ||specify
> ||> ||the protocol / transport used to negotiation the TCP port and
> ||> ||transmit/receive the media control protocol.
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||However, I would offer that the media control protocol defined by
> ||this
> ||> ||group should be ..
> ||> ||
> ||> ||1)     call control signaling agnostic
> ||> ||
> ||> ||2)    media transport agnostic
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||For this requirement ...
> ||> ||
> ||> ||draft-even-media-server-req-02.txt
> ||> ||<http://www.standardstrack.com/ietf/mediactrl/draft-even-media-
> ||server-
> ||> ||req-02.txt>  states the following
> ||> ||
> ||> ||"10.  The MS shall supply the media addresses (RTP transport
> ||address)
> ||> ||to be used to the AS"
> ||> ||
> ||> ||I don't understand why the AS would need the media addresses and
> ||would
> ||> ||like to think that the AS would like to control a media server
> that
> ||may
> ||> ||not be using RTP in all scenarios.
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||For this requirement ...
> ||> ||
> ||> ||draft-dolly-xcon-mediacntrlframe-03.txt
> ||> ||<http://www.standardstrack.com/ietf/mediactrl/draft-dolly-xcon-
> ||> ||mediacntrlframe-03.txt>  states the following
> ||> ||
> ||> ||"REQ-MCP-11 - SIP/SDP SHALL be used to establish and modify RTP
> ||> ||connections to a Media Server"
> ||> ||
> ||> ||I agree that SIP/SDP should be used to establish/negotiate the TCP
> ||> ||port/address used for media control transport, however I don't
> |think
> ||> ||RTP comes into play from a media control framework perspective.
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||My high level comment is that we should not limit the use of our
> ||media
> ||> ||control protocol to media servers that only support SIP and RTP.
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||Steve Buko
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||> ||
> ||>
> ||||____________________________________________________________________
> _
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