Re: [mif] draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00

[gabriel montenegro <[e-mail]>]

In addition to those three usages of "suffix":

1. Domain Search list suffix
2. For interface-specific suffix list 
3. Suffix to control Dynamic DNS Updates

There is yet another usage in Windows introduced in windows 7 and its server counterpart, Windows Server 2008 R2:

4. Suffix in the NRPT [1] to aid in identifying a Namespace that requires special handling, 
as used for DirectAccess [2]. This is not MIF-specific either.

Only #2 is MIF-specific (and this should be called out), but it makes sense to clarify the 
other uses of "suffix" otherwise #2 won't be clear.

[1] NRPT: See http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/ff394369.aspx
[2] DirectAcess: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/2009.05.cableguy.aspx

Gabriel

----- Original Message ----
> From: Dan Wing <[e-mail]>
> To: Hui Deng <[e-mail]>; Dave Thaler <[e-mail]>
> Cc: [e-mail]; Gabriel Montenegro <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Thu, April 8, 2010 7:22:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [mif] draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00
> 
> 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hui Deng [mailto:> ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" 
> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]] 
> Sent: 
> Wednesday, April 07, 2010 7:29 PM
> To: Dave Thaler
> Cc: Dan Wing; 
> Gabriel Montenegro; > href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]
> Subject: Re: [mif] 
> draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00
> 
> 2nd purpose has been 
> documented in the current practice draft,
> whether 1st and 3rd purpose 
> need to be documented as well? it may not
> directly related to 
> MIF?

Some operating systems -- e.g., most flavors of Unix -- do not 
> support the
ability for sending different DNS queries to different DNS 
> servers.

It would be helpful if the draft more clearly described the 
> functionality.
Someone unfamiliar with the Windows functionality, reading the 
> draft, assumes
it is merely talking about the 'domain search list' -- because 
> that is what
they are familiar with.  

I don't care how the draft 
> is fixed to make it clearer.  I propose describing
the 2 (and, as Dave 
> pointed out, 3) functions.  If you want to adjust the
document to 
> instead talk about the per-interface stuff, that's great -- my
point is that 
> right now it is insufficiently clear in explaining it.

-d

> 
> -Hui
> 
> 2010/4/7 Dave Thaler <> ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" 
> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]>:
> 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Dan Wing [mailto:> ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" 
> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]]
> >> Sent: 
> Tuesday, April 06, 2010 11:52 AM
> >> To: Dave Thaler; 'Hui Deng'; 
> Gabriel Montenegro
> >> Cc: > href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]
> >> Subject: RE: [mif] 
> draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00
> >>
> >>
> 
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > 
> From: Dave Thaler [mailto:> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]]
> >> 
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 10:06 AM
> >> > To: Hui Deng; 
> Dan Wing; Gabriel Montenegro
> >> > Cc: > ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" 
> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]
> >> > Subject: RE: 
> [mif] draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00
> >> >
> >> 
> > Hui is correct, Windows has per-interface DNS server lists
> >> 
> configured.
> >> >
> >> > It then uses a host-wide 
> "effective" server list for an 
> actual query,
> >> > 
> where the effective server list may be different for 
> different 
> names.
> >> >
> >> > On Windows the per-interface 
> suffix is actually termed the
> >> > "connection-specific DNS 
> suffix" to distinguish it from the
> >> > "primary DNS suffix" of 
> the machine.  I think that's why
> >> > "interface-specific" was 
> repeated in the first bullet.
> >>
> >>
> 
> >>
> >> In draft-montenegro-mif-multihoming, there are two 
> 
> purposes and terms
> >> that
> >> seem to be 
> intermingled using the term "DNS suffix".
> >>
> >> One 
> purpose is the suffix for non-FQDN names, like 
> "payroll" or 
> "mail",
> >> which will have a suffix added to them (e.g., > target="_blank" href="http://example.com">example.com).
> >
> 
> > That's what windows calls the "DNS Suffix Search List" (see the
> 
> > sample output I sent previously below).  It's called the
> > 
> "domain search list" in other places (like RFC 3397), or just
> > 
> "search list" (RFC 1123).
> >
> >> The
> >> 
> other purpose is deciding which DNS server will be be sent 
> a query 
> for
> >> a certain FQDN (e.g., queries for *.> href="http://example.net">example.net go to one 
> DNS server
> 
> >> and queries for *.example.com go to a different DNS server).
> 
> >
> > Another purpose is deciding which DNS server will receive a 
> dynamic
> > update for a name with a certain suffix (e.g., Windows 
> 
> supports dynamic
> > updates for the primary DNS name, and 
> optionally also the 
> connection-
> > specific DNS name of the 
> machine).
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> In 
> draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00, which is the WG document
> >> 
> that seems to have boiled down draft-montenegro-mif-multihoming,
> 
> >> but draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00 also does not clearly
> 
> >> separate the two purposes.
> >
> > Yep
> 
> >
> > -Dave
> >>
> >> -d
> 
> >>
> >>
> >> > Example on Windows, extracted 
> from "ipconfig /all" output:
> >> >
> >> > Windows 
> IP Configuration
> >> >
> >> >    Host Name . . . 
> . . . . . . . . . : dthaler-win7
> >> >    Primary Dns Suffix  . 
> . . . . . . : > href="http://ntdev.corp.microsoft.com">ntdev.corp.microsoft.com
> 
> >> >   
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> 
> >    Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
> >> >    IP 
> Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
> >> >    WINS Proxy Enabled. 
> . . . . . . . : No
> >> >    DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : 
> ntdev.corp.microsoft.com
> >> >                                   
>      > href="http://redmond.corp.microsoft.com">redmond.corp.microsoft.com
> 
> >> >                                        > href="http://ntdev.microsoft.com">ntdev.microsoft.com
> >> > 
>                                        > href="http://dns.corp.microsoft.com">dns.corp.microsoft.com
> >> 
> >    System Quarantine State . . . . . : Not Restricted
> >> 
> >
> >> > Wireless LAN adapter Wireless Network 
> Connection:
> >> >
> >> >    Connection-specific 
> DNS Suffix  . : > href="http://hsd1.wa.comcast.net">hsd1.wa.comcast.net.
> >> > 
>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> 
> >    Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) Wireless WiFi
> 
> >> > Link 4965AGN
> >> >    Physical Address. . . . . . 
> . . . : 00-1D-E0-34-4F-6F
> >> >    DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . 
> . . : Yes
> >> >    Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : 
> Yes
> >> >    Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . :
> 
> >> > fe80::4853:4753:9d8d:3b45%13(Preferred)
> >> >   
>  IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.195(Preferred)
> >> 
> >    Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
> >> > 
>    Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Monday, April 05, 2010
> >> 
> > 10:19:02 PM
> >> >    Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : 
> Tuesday, April 06,
> >> > 2010 10:19:02 PM
> >> > 
>    Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
> >> >    DHCP 
> Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
> >> >    DHCPv6 IAID 
> . . . . . . . . . . . : 335551968
> >> >    DHCPv6 Client DUID. . 
> . . . . . . :
> >> > 
> 00-01-00-01-12-0C-E2-7A-00-1E-37-CC-8D-DD
> >> >
> >> 
> >    DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 2001:df8:0:1::25
> >> 
> >                                        192.168.0.1
> >> >   
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> >   
>  NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled
> >> >
> 
> >> > -Dave
> >> >
> >> > > 
> -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: Hui Deng [mailto:> ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" 
> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]]
> >> > 
> > Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 7:40 PM
> >> > > To: Dan 
> Wing; Gabriel Montenegro; Dave Thaler
> >> > > Cc: > ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" 
> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]
> >> > > Subject: 
> Re: [mif] draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00
> >> > >
> 
> >> > > DNS server always has specific interface related 
> information,
> >> > > but the final DNS server will still be 
> host based, I 
> wouldn't say
> >> it
> >> > 
> > is not correct.
> >> > >
> >> > > one 
> example would be you have internet connection and vpn
> >> 
> connection
> >> > > at the same time,
> >> > 
> > good VPN implementation will always rely on VPN DNS server
> >> 
> > information
> >> > > for Internet connection.
> 
> >> > >
> >> > > -Hui
> >> > 
> >
> >> > > 2010/3/31 Dan Wing <> ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" 
> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]>:
> >> > 
> > > Section 3.2.1.3 of describes the DNS configuration 
> of 
> Windows,
> >> and
> >> > > says:
> >> 
> > > >
> >> > > >  "Interface specific DNS 
> configuration can be input 
> via static
> >> > > >   
> configuration or via DHCP.  It includes:
> >> > > >
> 
> >> > > >   o  An interface-specific suffix list.
> >> 
> > > >
> >> > > >   o  A list of DNS server IP 
> addresses."
> >> > > >
> >> > > > It 
> is curious that the first bullet repeats "interface
> >> > 
> specific", but
> >> > > the
> >> > > > 
> second bullet does not repeat it.  A reasonable 
> interpretation 
> is
> >> > > that the
> >> > > > second 
> bullet is not interface-specific, but the 
> lead-in sentence
> 
> >> > > says this is
> >> > > > 
> interface-specific.  I was hoping
> >> > 
> draft-montenegro-mif-multihoming-00
> >> > > would
> 
> >> > > > clarify, but it doesn't.
> >> > > 
> >
> >> > > > -d
> >> > > >
> 
> >> > > > _______________________________________________
> 
> >> > > > mif mailing list
> >> > > > > ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" 
> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]
> >> > > > > href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mif" target=_blank 
> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mif
> >> > > 
> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> 
> >

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