Re: [mif] draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00

> -----Original Message-----
> From: gabriel montenegro [mailto:g_e_montenegro@yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 1:17 PM
> To: Dan Wing; Hui Deng; Dave Thaler
> Cc: mif@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mif] draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00
> 
> In addition to those three usages of "suffix":
> 
> 1. Domain Search list suffix
> 2. For interface-specific suffix list 
> 3. Suffix to control Dynamic DNS Updates
> 
> There is yet another usage in Windows introduced in windows 7 
> and its server counterpart, Windows Server 2008 R2:
> 
> 4. Suffix in the NRPT [1] to aid in identifying a Namespace 
> that requires special handling, 
> as used for DirectAccess [2]. This is not MIF-specific either.
>
> Only #2 is MIF-specific (and this should be called out), but 
> it makes sense to clarify the 
> other uses of "suffix" otherwise #2 won't be clear.

Thanks.

To be concrete, I would suggest text something like this at
the top of the section on draft-ietf-mif-current-practices
describing Windows DNS behavior:

  "Windows uses host name suffixes for four different purposes:
   domain search list suffix (similar to the "domain" entry in
   the standard Unix /etc/resolv.conf file), interface-specific
   suffix list, dynamic DNS updates, and the name resolution
   policy table (NRPT).  It is Windows interface-specific
   suffix list that is described in this section."

and then tighten up the rest of section to only describe that.

-d

> [1] NRPT: See 
> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/ff394369.aspx
> [2] DirectAcess: 
> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/2009.05.cableguy.aspx

> Gabriel
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Dan Wing <dwing@cisco.com>
> > To: Hui Deng <denghui02@gmail.com>; Dave Thaler 
> <dthaler@microsoft.com>
> > Cc: mif@ietf.org; Gabriel Montenegro <gmonte@microsoft.com>
> > Sent: Thu, April 8, 2010 7:22:23 AM
> > Subject: Re: [mif] draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00
> > 
> > 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Hui Deng [mailto:> ymailto="mailto:denghui02@gmail.com" 
> > href="mailto:denghui02@gmail.com">denghui02@gmail.com] 
> > Sent: 
> > Wednesday, April 07, 2010 7:29 PM
> > To: Dave Thaler
> > Cc: Dan Wing; 
> > Gabriel Montenegro; > href="mailto:mif@ietf.org">mif@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [mif] 
> > draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00
> > 
> > 2nd purpose has been 
> > documented in the current practice draft,
> > whether 1st and 3rd purpose 
> > need to be documented as well? it may not
> > directly related to 
> > MIF?
> 
> Some operating systems -- e.g., most flavors of Unix -- do not 
> > support the
> ability for sending different DNS queries to different DNS 
> > servers.
> 
> It would be helpful if the draft more clearly described the 
> > functionality.
> Someone unfamiliar with the Windows functionality, reading the 
> > draft, assumes
> it is merely talking about the 'domain search list' -- because 
> > that is what
> they are familiar with.  
> 
> I don't care how the draft 
> > is fixed to make it clearer.  I propose describing
> the 2 (and, as Dave 
> > pointed out, 3) functions.  If you want to adjust the
> document to 
> > instead talk about the per-interface stuff, that's great -- my
> point is that 
> > right now it is insufficiently clear in explaining it.
> 
> -d
> 
> > 
> > -Hui
> > 
> > 2010/4/7 Dave Thaler <> ymailto="mailto:dthaler@microsoft.com" 
> > href="mailto:dthaler@microsoft.com">dthaler@microsoft.com>:
> > 
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Dan Wing [mailto:> ymailto="mailto:dwing@cisco.com" 
> > href="mailto:dwing@cisco.com">dwing@cisco.com]
> > >> Sent: 
> > Tuesday, April 06, 2010 11:52 AM
> > >> To: Dave Thaler; 'Hui Deng'; 
> > Gabriel Montenegro
> > >> Cc: > href="mailto:mif@ietf.org">mif@ietf.org
> > >> Subject: RE: [mif] 
> > draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00
> > >>
> > >>
> > 
> > >>
> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > 
> > From: Dave Thaler [mailto:> 
> href="mailto:dthaler@microsoft.com">dthaler@microsoft.com]
> > >> 
> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 10:06 AM
> > >> > To: Hui Deng; 
> > Dan Wing; Gabriel Montenegro
> > >> > Cc: > ymailto="mailto:mif@ietf.org" 
> > href="mailto:mif@ietf.org">mif@ietf.org
> > >> > Subject: RE: 
> > [mif] draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00
> > >> >
> > >> 
> > > Hui is correct, Windows has per-interface DNS server lists
> > >> 
> > configured.
> > >> >
> > >> > It then uses a host-wide 
> > "effective" server list for an 
> > actual query,
> > >> > 
> > where the effective server list may be different for 
> > different 
> > names.
> > >> >
> > >> > On Windows the per-interface 
> > suffix is actually termed the
> > >> > "connection-specific DNS 
> > suffix" to distinguish it from the
> > >> > "primary DNS suffix" of 
> > the machine.  I think that's why
> > >> > "interface-specific" was 
> > repeated in the first bullet.
> > >>
> > >>
> > 
> > >>
> > >> In draft-montenegro-mif-multihoming, there are two 
> > 
> > purposes and terms
> > >> that
> > >> seem to be 
> > intermingled using the term "DNS suffix".
> > >>
> > >> One 
> > purpose is the suffix for non-FQDN names, like 
> > "payroll" or 
> > "mail",
> > >> which will have a suffix added to them (e.g., > 
> target="_blank" href="http://example.com">example.com).
> > >
> > 
> > > That's what windows calls the "DNS Suffix Search List" (see the
> > 
> > > sample output I sent previously below).  It's called the
> > > 
> > "domain search list" in other places (like RFC 3397), or just
> > > 
> > "search list" (RFC 1123).
> > >
> > >> The
> > >> 
> > other purpose is deciding which DNS server will be be sent 
> > a query 
> > for
> > >> a certain FQDN (e.g., queries for *.> 
> href="http://example.net">example.net go to one 
> > DNS server
> > 
> > >> and queries for *.example.com go to a different DNS server).
> > 
> > >
> > > Another purpose is deciding which DNS server will receive a 
> > dynamic
> > > update for a name with a certain suffix (e.g., Windows 
> > 
> > supports dynamic
> > > updates for the primary DNS name, and 
> > optionally also the 
> > connection-
> > > specific DNS name of the 
> > machine).
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> In 
> > draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00, which is the WG document
> > >> 
> > that seems to have boiled down draft-montenegro-mif-multihoming,
> > 
> > >> but draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00 also does not clearly
> > 
> > >> separate the two purposes.
> > >
> > > Yep
> > 
> > >
> > > -Dave
> > >>
> > >> -d
> > 
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > Example on Windows, extracted 
> > from "ipconfig /all" output:
> > >> >
> > >> > Windows 
> > IP Configuration
> > >> >
> > >> >    Host Name . . . 
> > . . . . . . . . . : dthaler-win7
> > >> >    Primary Dns Suffix  . 
> > . . . . . . : > 
> href="http://ntdev.corp.microsoft.com">ntdev.corp.microsoft.com
> > 
> > >> >   
> >  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > >> 
> > >    Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
> > >> >    IP 
> > Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
> > >> >    WINS Proxy Enabled. 
> > . . . . . . . : No
> > >> >    DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : 
> > ntdev.corp.microsoft.com
> > >> >                                   
> >      > 
> href="http://redmond.corp.microsoft.com">redmond.corp.microsoft.com
> > 
> > >> >                                        > 
> href="http://ntdev.microsoft.com">ntdev.microsoft.com
> > >> > 
> >                                        > 
> href="http://dns.corp.microsoft.com">dns.corp.microsoft.com
> > >> 
> > >    System Quarantine State . . . . . : Not Restricted
> > >> 
> > >
> > >> > Wireless LAN adapter Wireless Network 
> > Connection:
> > >> >
> > >> >    Connection-specific 
> > DNS Suffix  . : > 
> href="http://hsd1.wa.comcast.net">hsd1.wa.comcast.net.
> > >> > 
> >    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > >> 
> > >    Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) Wireless WiFi
> > 
> > >> > Link 4965AGN
> > >> >    Physical Address. . . . . . 
> > . . . : 00-1D-E0-34-4F-6F
> > >> >    DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . 
> > . . : Yes
> > >> >    Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : 
> > Yes
> > >> >    Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . :
> > 
> > >> > fe80::4853:4753:9d8d:3b45%13(Preferred)
> > >> >   
> >  IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.195(Preferred)
> > >> 
> > >    Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
> > >> > 
> >    Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Monday, April 05, 2010
> > >> 
> > > 10:19:02 PM
> > >> >    Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : 
> > Tuesday, April 06,
> > >> > 2010 10:19:02 PM
> > >> > 
> >    Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
> > >> >    DHCP 
> > Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
> > >> >    DHCPv6 IAID 
> > . . . . . . . . . . . : 335551968
> > >> >    DHCPv6 Client DUID. . 
> > . . . . . . :
> > >> > 
> > 00-01-00-01-12-0C-E2-7A-00-1E-37-CC-8D-DD
> > >> >
> > >> 
> > >    DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 2001:df8:0:1::25
> > >> 
> > >                                        192.168.0.1
> > >> >   
> >  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > >> >   
> >  NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled
> > >> >
> > 
> > >> > -Dave
> > >> >
> > >> > > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > > From: Hui Deng [mailto:> 
> ymailto="mailto:denghui02@gmail.com" 
> > href="mailto:denghui02@gmail.com">denghui02@gmail.com]
> > >> > 
> > > Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 7:40 PM
> > >> > > To: Dan 
> > Wing; Gabriel Montenegro; Dave Thaler
> > >> > > Cc: > ymailto="mailto:mif@ietf.org" 
> > href="mailto:mif@ietf.org">mif@ietf.org
> > >> > > Subject: 
> > Re: [mif] draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00
> > >> > >
> > 
> > >> > > DNS server always has specific interface related 
> > information,
> > >> > > but the final DNS server will still be 
> > host based, I 
> > wouldn't say
> > >> it
> > >> > 
> > > is not correct.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > one 
> > example would be you have internet connection and vpn
> > >> 
> > connection
> > >> > > at the same time,
> > >> > 
> > > good VPN implementation will always rely on VPN DNS server
> > >> 
> > > information
> > >> > > for Internet connection.
> > 
> > >> > >
> > >> > > -Hui
> > >> > 
> > >
> > >> > > 2010/3/31 Dan Wing <> ymailto="mailto:dwing@cisco.com" 
> > href="mailto:dwing@cisco.com">dwing@cisco.com>:
> > >> > 
> > > > Section 3.2.1.3 of describes the DNS configuration 
> > of 
> > Windows,
> > >> and
> > >> > > says:
> > >> 
> > > > >
> > >> > > >  "Interface specific DNS 
> > configuration can be input 
> > via static
> > >> > > >   
> > configuration or via DHCP.  It includes:
> > >> > > >
> > 
> > >> > > >   o  An interface-specific suffix list.
> > >> 
> > > > >
> > >> > > >   o  A list of DNS server IP 
> > addresses."
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > It 
> > is curious that the first bullet repeats "interface
> > >> > 
> > specific", but
> > >> > > the
> > >> > > > 
> > second bullet does not repeat it.  A reasonable 
> > interpretation 
> > is
> > >> > > that the
> > >> > > > second 
> > bullet is not interface-specific, but the 
> > lead-in sentence
> > 
> > >> > > says this is
> > >> > > > 
> > interface-specific.  I was hoping
> > >> > 
> > draft-montenegro-mif-multihoming-00
> > >> > > would
> > 
> > >> > > > clarify, but it doesn't.
> > >> > > 
> > >
> > >> > > > -d
> > >> > > >
> > 
> > >> > > > _______________________________________________
> > 
> > >> > > > mif mailing list
> > >> > > > > ymailto="mailto:mif@ietf.org" 
> > href="mailto:mif@ietf.org">mif@ietf.org
> > >> > > > > href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mif" 
> target=_blank 
> > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mif
> > >> > > 
> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> > 
> > >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mif mailing 
> > list
> > href="mailto:mif@ietf.org">mif@ietf.org
> > href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mif" target=_blank 
> > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mif