Re: [mif] draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00

[gabriel montenegro <[e-mail]>]

Sure. I'll massage text from this thread and send it to Margaret.



----- Original Message ----
> From: Hui Deng <[e-mail]>
> To: gabriel montenegro <[e-mail]>
> Cc: Dan Wing <[e-mail]>; Dave Thaler <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
> Sent: Fri, April 9, 2010 6:29:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [mif] draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00
> 
> Hi Gabriel,

Thanks for your sending the summary of usage and 
> reference,
It become more clear about suffix now.

Btw, could you kind 
> help again to make the revision text
for MIF current practice draft related 
> to this?

Thanks again

-Hui


2010/4/9 gabriel montenegro 
> <> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]>:
> 
> In addition to those three usages of "suffix":
>
> 1. Domain Search 
> list suffix
> 2. For interface-specific suffix list
> 3. Suffix to 
> control Dynamic DNS Updates
>
> There is yet another usage in 
> Windows introduced in windows 7 and its server counterpart, Windows Server 2008 
> R2:
>
> 4. Suffix in the NRPT [1] to aid in identifying a Namespace 
> that requires special handling,
> as used for DirectAccess [2]. This is 
> not MIF-specific either.
>
> Only #2 is MIF-specific (and this 
> should be called out), but it makes sense to clarify the
> other uses of 
> "suffix" otherwise #2 won't be clear.
>
> [1] NRPT: See 
> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/ff394369.aspx
> [2] 
> DirectAcess: 
> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/2009.05.cableguy.aspx
>
> 
> Gabriel
>
> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Dan Wing 
> <> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]>
>> To: Hui Deng 
> <> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]>; Dave Thaler 
> <> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]>
>> 
> Cc: > href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]; Gabriel Montenegro <> ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" 
> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]>
>> 
> Sent: Thu, April 8, 2010 7:22:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: [mif] 
> draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00
>>
>>
>
>> 
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Hui Deng [mailto:> 
> ymailto="mailto:> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]"
>> 
> href="mailto:> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]">> ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" 
> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]]
>> 
> Sent:
>> Wednesday, April 07, 2010 7:29 PM
>> To: Dave 
> Thaler
>> Cc: Dan Wing;
>> Gabriel Montenegro; > 
> href="mailto:> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]">> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]
>> Subject: Re: 
> [mif]
>> draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00
>>
>> 
> 2nd purpose has been
>> documented in the current practice 
> draft,
>> whether 1st and 3rd purpose
>> need to be documented 
> as well? it may not
>> directly related to
>> 
> MIF?
>
> Some operating systems -- e.g., most flavors of Unix -- do 
> not
>> support the
> ability for sending different DNS queries to 
> different DNS
>> servers.
>
> It would be helpful if the 
> draft more clearly described the
>> functionality.
> Someone 
> unfamiliar with the Windows functionality, reading the
>> draft, 
> assumes
> it is merely talking about the 'domain search list' -- 
> because
>> that is what
> they are familiar with.
>
> 
> I don't care how the draft
>> is fixed to make it clearer.  I propose 
> describing
> the 2 (and, as Dave
>> pointed out, 3) functions.  
> If you want to adjust the
> document to
>> instead talk about the 
> per-interface stuff, that's great -- my
> point is that
>> right 
> now it is insufficiently clear in explaining it.
>
> 
> -d
>
>>
>> -Hui
>>
>> 2010/4/7 Dave 
> Thaler <> ymailto="mailto:> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]"
>> 
> href="mailto:> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]">> ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" 
> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]>:
>>
>> 
> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Dan Wing 
> [mailto:> ymailto="mailto:> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]"
>> href="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" 
> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]">> ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" 
> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]]
>> >> 
> Sent:
>> Tuesday, April 06, 2010 11:52 AM
>> >> To: Dave 
> Thaler; 'Hui Deng';
>> Gabriel Montenegro
>> >> Cc: > 
> href="mailto:> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]">> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]
>> >> Subject: RE: 
> [mif]
>> draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00
>> 
> >>
>> >>
>>
>> >>
>> 
> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> >
>> 
> From: Dave Thaler [mailto:> href="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" 
> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]">> ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" 
> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]]
>> 
> >>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 10:06 AM
>> 
> >> > To: Hui Deng;
>> Dan Wing; Gabriel Montenegro
>> 
> >> > Cc: > ymailto="mailto:> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]"
>> href="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]">> ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" 
> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]
>> >> > Subject: 
> RE:
>> [mif] draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00
>> >> 
> >
>> >>
>> > Hui is correct, Windows has 
> per-interface DNS server lists
>> >>
>> 
> configured.
>> >> >
>> >> > It then uses a 
> host-wide
>> "effective" server list for an
>> actual 
> query,
>> >> >
>> where the effective server list may 
> be different for
>> different
>> names.
>> >> 
> >
>> >> > On Windows the per-interface
>> suffix 
> is actually termed the
>> >> > "connection-specific 
> DNS
>> suffix" to distinguish it from the
>> >> > 
> "primary DNS suffix" of
>> the machine.  I think that's why
>> 
> >> > "interface-specific" was
>> repeated in the first 
> bullet.
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>> 
> >>
>> >> In draft-montenegro-mif-multihoming, there are 
> two
>>
>> purposes and terms
>> >> 
> that
>> >> seem to be
>> intermingled using the term 
> "DNS suffix".
>> >>
>> >> One
>> purpose 
> is the suffix for non-FQDN names, like
>> "payroll" or
>> 
> "mail",
>> >> which will have a suffix added to them (e.g., > 
> target="_blank" href="http://example.com">> href="http://example.com">example.com).
>> 
> >
>>
>> > That's what windows calls the "DNS Suffix 
> Search List" (see the
>>
>> > sample output I sent 
> previously below).  It's called the
>> >
>> "domain search 
> list" in other places (like RFC 3397), or just
>> >
>> 
> "search list" (RFC 1123).
>> >
>> >> The
>> 
> >>
>> other purpose is deciding which DNS server will be be 
> sent
>> a query
>> for
>> >> a certain FQDN 
> (e.g., queries for *.> href="http://example.net">> href="http://example.net">example.net go to one
>> DNS 
> server
>>
>> >> and queries for *.example.com go to a 
> different DNS server).
>>
>> >
>> > Another 
> purpose is deciding which DNS server will receive a
>> 
> dynamic
>> > update for a name with a certain suffix (e.g., 
> Windows
>>
>> supports dynamic
>> > updates for 
> the primary DNS name, and
>> optionally also the
>> 
> connection-
>> > specific DNS name of the
>> 
> machine).
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> 
> >> In
>> draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00, which is the WG 
> document
>> >>
>> that seems to have boiled down 
> draft-montenegro-mif-multihoming,
>>
>> >> but 
> draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00 also does not 
> clearly
>>
>> >> separate the two purposes.
>> 
> >
>> > Yep
>>
>> >
>> > 
> -Dave
>> >>
>> >> -d
>>
>> 
> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Example on Windows, 
> extracted
>> from "ipconfig /all" output:
>> >> 
> >
>> >> > Windows
>> IP Configuration
>> 
> >> >
>> >> >    Host Name . . .
>> . . . . . 
> . . . . : dthaler-win7
>> >> >    Primary Dns Suffix 
>  .
>> . . . . . . : > href="http://ntdev.corp.microsoft.com">> target="_blank" 
> href="http://ntdev.corp.microsoft.com">ntdev.corp.microsoft.com
>>
>> 
> >> >
>> 
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> 
> >>
>> >    Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : 
> Hybrid
>> >> >    IP
>> Routing Enabled. . . . . . . 
> . : No
>> >> >    WINS Proxy Enabled.
>> . . . . . . 
> . : No
>> >> >    DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . 
> :
>> ntdev.corp.microsoft.com
>> >> >
>>     
>  > href="http://redmond.corp.microsoft.com">> href="http://redmond.corp.microsoft.com">redmond.corp.microsoft.com
>>
>> 
> >> >                                        > 
> href="http://ntdev.microsoft.com">> href="http://ntdev.microsoft.com">ntdev.microsoft.com
>> >> 
> >
>>                                        > 
> href="http://dns.corp.microsoft.com">> href="http://dns.corp.microsoft.com">dns.corp.microsoft.com
>> 
> >>
>> >    System Quarantine State . . . . . : Not 
> Restricted
>> >>
>> >
>> >> > 
> Wireless LAN adapter Wireless Network
>> Connection:
>> 
> >> >
>> >> >    Connection-specific
>> DNS 
> Suffix  . : > href="http://hsd1.wa.comcast.net">> href="http://hsd1.wa.comcast.net">hsd1.wa.comcast.net.
>> >> 
> >
>>   
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> 
> >>
>> >    Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) 
> Wireless WiFi
>>
>> >> > Link 4965AGN
>> 
> >> >    Physical Address. . . . . .
>> . . . : 
> 00-1D-E0-34-4F-6F
>> >> >    DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . 
> .
>> . . : Yes
>> >> >    Autoconfiguration Enabled . 
> . . . :
>> Yes
>> >> >    Link-local IPv6 Address . . 
> . . . :
>>
>> >> > 
> fe80::4853:4753:9d8d:3b45%13(Preferred)
>> >> >
>> 
>  IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.195(Preferred)
>> 
> >>
>> >    Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 
> 255.255.255.0
>> >> >
>>    Lease Obtained. . . . . . 
> . . . . : Monday, April 05, 2010
>> >>
>> > 10:19:02 
> PM
>> >> >    Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . :
>> 
> Tuesday, April 06,
>> >> > 2010 10:19:02 PM
>> 
> >> >
>>    Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 
> 192.168.0.1
>> >> >    DHCP
>> Server . . . . . . . . 
> . . . : 192.168.0.1
>> >> >    DHCPv6 IAID
>> . . . . 
> . . . . . . . : 335551968
>> >> >    DHCPv6 Client DUID. 
> .
>> . . . . . . :
>> >> >
>> 
> 00-01-00-01-12-0C-E2-7A-00-1E-37-CC-8D-DD
>> >> >
>> 
> >>
>> >    DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 
> 2001:df8:0:1::25
>> >>
>> >                           
>              192.168.0.1
>> >> >
>> 
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >> 
> >
>>  NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled
>> 
> >> >
>>
>> >> > -Dave
>> >> 
> >
>> >> > >
>> -----Original 
> Message-----
>> >> > > From: Hui Deng [mailto:> 
> ymailto="mailto:> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]"
>> 
> href="mailto:> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]">> ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" 
> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]]
>> >> 
> >
>> > Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 7:40 PM
>> >> 
> > > To: Dan
>> Wing; Gabriel Montenegro; Dave Thaler
>> 
> >> > > Cc: > ymailto="mailto:> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]"
>> href="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]">> ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" 
> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]
>> >> > > 
> Subject:
>> Re: [mif] draft-ietf-mif-current-practices-00
>> 
> >> > >
>>
>> >> > > DNS server always 
> has specific interface related
>> information,
>> >> 
> > > but the final DNS server will still be
>> host based, 
> I
>> wouldn't say
>> >> it
>> >> 
> >
>> > is not correct.
>> >> > >
>> 
> >> > > one
>> example would be you have internet connection 
> and vpn
>> >>
>> connection
>> >> > 
> > at the same time,
>> >> >
>> > good VPN 
> implementation will always rely on VPN DNS server
>> 
> >>
>> > information
>> >> > > for 
> Internet connection.
>>
>> >> > >
>> 
> >> > > -Hui
>> >> >
>> >
>> 
> >> > > 2010/3/31 Dan Wing <> ymailto="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" 
> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]"
>> href="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" 
> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]">> ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" 
> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]>:
>> >> 
> >
>> > > Section 3.2.1.3 of describes the DNS 
> configuration
>> of
>> Windows,
>> >> 
> and
>> >> > > says:
>> >>
>> > 
> > >
>> >> > > >  "Interface specific 
> DNS
>> configuration can be input
>> via static
>> 
> >> > > >
>> configuration or via DHCP.  It 
> includes:
>> >> > > >
>>
>> >> 
> > > >   o  An interface-specific suffix list.
>> 
> >>
>> > > >
>> >> > > >   o  A 
> list of DNS server IP
>> addresses."
>> >> > > 
> >
>> >> > > > It
>> is curious that the 
> first bullet repeats "interface
>> >> >
>> specific", 
> but
>> >> > > the
>> >> > > 
> >
>> second bullet does not repeat it.  A reasonable
>> 
> interpretation
>> is
>> >> > > that 
> the
>> >> > > > second
>> bullet is not 
> interface-specific, but the
>> lead-in sentence
>>
>> 
> >> > > says this is
>> >> > > >
>> 
> interface-specific.  I was hoping
>> >> >
>> 
> draft-montenegro-mif-multihoming-00
>> >> > > 
> would
>>
>> >> > > > clarify, but it 
> doesn't.
>> >> > >
>> >
>> >> 
> > > > -d
>> >> > > >
>>
>> 
> >> > > > 
> _______________________________________________
>>
>> >> 
> > > > mif mailing list
>> >> > > > > 
> ymailto="mailto:> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]"
>> href="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]">> ymailto="mailto:[e-mail]" 
> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]
>> >> > > > 
> > href="> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mif" target=_blank
>> >> href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mif" target=_blank 
> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mif
>> >> > 
> >
>> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> 
> >
>>
>> >
>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mif mailing
>> 
> list
>> href="mailto:> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]">> href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]
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