Re: [mmox] MMOX: Strawman scope/goals/approach
Jon Watte <jwatte@gmail.com> Tue, 24 February 2009 19:50 UTC
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Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 11:50:36 -0800
From: Jon Watte <jwatte@gmail.com>
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To: David W Levine <dwl@us.ibm.com>
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Cc: mmox-bounces@ietf.org, mmox@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mmox] MMOX: Strawman scope/goals/approach
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I like the depth of thinking you've put into this. If we can shift the overall discussion in this direction, I think that will be very fruitful. David W Levine wrote: > 1. The ability to manage one's identity when interacting in > multiple MMOX spaces. Note that Microsoft tried to do that with Microsoft Passport, for the 2D web, where it is a lot easier to do than the 3D web. They didn't succeed. It's not yet clear to me that you need an identity, as separate from your service provider. After all, if you change mail hosts, your e-mail address changes. Thus, I think it would be useful to specify what an identity looks like ("an email address is name @ host"), but trying to make it so that I can use "jwatte@gmail.com" when I sign up for HotMail doesn't seem feasible. > > 3. The ability to share content between MMOX spaces > a. Import and Export of content and models (This may > well leverage off of > existing work such as Collada) Static, import/export of content > while not > terribly dramatic is an important part of the value chain of > interoperability Offline and online sharing are, I think, very different. For offline sharing, you want as rich a model as possible, and size isn't all that important. For online sharing, you want something that gives a representative visual, but there are a lot of things you don't need (such as built-in scripting, undo history, specific modifier stack parameters for your DCC, etc). Also, for offline sharing, there are several official or de facto standards already in place, including AutoCad, COLLADA and X3D (which attempts to deliver on the "interactivity/scripting" part of a virtual world object). > ii. Extensible, with a common registry, so that > we can understand the > types of contents a client can accept, and a > virtual space, or virtual > asset store can be asked to provide I believe that if the standard is just an empty vessel, where different systems can put different content, then no true interoperability will have been achieved, because something like the Source Engine will put in Source Engine format data, and something like Club Penguin will put in Club Penguin format data. Yes, you can get the data, but that doesn't do you any good, because your system can't understand it. Thus, you get a lot of "Hey, I'm compliant with standard X!" without any real operability coming out of it. I am strongly for specifying a minimum set of content types that have to be supported, whatever they are. Ideally, that minimum set is something that maps well to existing content repositories, including all the AutoCad models of the world's cities and buildings, the Google Warehouse, and ESRI GIS data, for example. > 4. The affordances in MMOX to permit the creation of > micro-payment economies > a. Appropriate spots defined in MMOX protocols for cost > information > b. Appropriate spots defined in MMOX protocols for > reference to > micropayment systems > I'm not so sure this is in scope at all. If I want to do a transaction with a service provider, I expect that to be done through a web application. There are already fine web application standards. If any tie into micro-payments is needed, I think that only the capability to tie a web link to a command is necessary -- the fact that that link/command is a micro-transaction isn't even necessarily known to the VW system. > 5. The ability to share "non immersive streams" between spaces Again, assuming we have a content description, that "ability" can be expressed as a simple URL link. In fact, a standard like X3D already supports that kind of sharing. I think a much more important problem to solve is the sharing of real-time data streams. Also, there seems to be an implicit assumption that "one space" is served by "one system." I think that, long term, that will not actually scale. You won't put a simulation of 40,000 avatars on Times Square onto a single system. You simply must come up with a way to share the simulation of those avatars betwene separate systems. Thus, for both scalability, and interoperability reasons, I think that the ability for two separate hosts to "share responsibility" of an agreed virtual space is important. And, once you have that, each user of each of those systems can experience that shared space through the already existing infrastructure, without any particular user-side presentation standard being needed at all. Sincerely, jw
- [mmox] Requirements for new xxSD specification Catherine Pfeffer
- [mmox] MMOX: Strawman scope/goals/approach David W Levine
- Re: [mmox] MMOX: Strawman scope/goals/approach Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] Requirements for new xxSD specification Lisa Dusseault
- Re: [mmox] MMOX: Strawman scope/goals/approach Mark P. McCahill
- Re: [mmox] MMOX: Strawman scope/goals/approach Christian Scholz
- Re: [mmox] MMOX: Strawman scope/goals/approach Meadhbh Hamrick (Infinity)
- Re: [mmox] MMOX: Strawman scope/goals/approach Christian Scholz
- Re: [mmox] MMOX: Strawman scope/goals/approach Gareth Nelson
- Re: [mmox] MMOX: Strawman scope/goals/approach Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] MMOX: Strawman scope/goals/approach Lawson English
- Re: [mmox] MMOX: Strawman scope/goals/approach Meadhbh Hamrick (Infinity)
- Re: [mmox] MMOX: Strawman scope/goals/approach Gareth Nelson
- Re: [mmox] MMOX: Strawman scope/goals/approach Meadhbh Hamrick (Infinity)
- Re: [mmox] MMOX: Strawman scope/goals/approach David W Levine
- Re: [mmox] MMOX: Strawman scope/goals/approach Ryan McDougall