Re: [MMUSIC] Offer/Answer PT Questions - text proposal

Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu> Wed, 02 March 2016 22:32 UTC

Return-Path: <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
X-Original-To: mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D76831B3315 for <mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 2 Mar 2016 14:32:35 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.235
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.235 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ead7V-fVlbXD for <mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 2 Mar 2016 14:32:35 -0800 (PST)
Received: from resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD2EB1B3314 for <mmusic@ietf.org>; Wed, 2 Mar 2016 14:32:34 -0800 (PST)
Received: from resomta-ch2-13v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.109]) by resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id RAXq1s0072N9P4d01AYaw8; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 22:32:34 +0000
Received: from Paul-Kyzivats-MacBook-Pro.local ([73.218.51.154]) by resomta-ch2-13v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id RAYZ1s0083KdFy101AYZ3n; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 22:32:34 +0000
To: Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org>
References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37E425AB@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <56D09563.9040509@alum.mit.edu> <CAD5OKxvwJwKoaaMHDDA8AKYdd2Rc8vOK_dnOftvozX+FbfqHOQ@mail.gmail.com> <56D1CA6C.70700@alum.mit.edu> <CAD5OKxt5jp44Saop+ssdPENBsRBNbkFUXFphZHMwqYDFLNWFpg@mail.gmail.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37E4BD38@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <56D463A3.8070007@alum.mit.edu> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37E4D5E9@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <56D4B1F1.2070706@alum.mit.edu> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37E4D951@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <66F2264B-3CA3-4650-88B6-89FC64D5FD29@csperkins.org> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37E4DB7C@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <56D4C0F5.50901@alum.mit.edu> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37E4EAD1@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <56D5CAA0.2060901@alum.mit.edu> <CAD5OKxtdmhW-opmp2TQou5wYbz70FdUvftr1PAZb9YiW4crevA@mail.gmail.com> <56D5E81F.2040306@alum.mit.edu> <E2650620-CC0D-42D7-A775-A44BB4105F76@csperkins.org>
From: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <56D76A00.8080003@alum.mit.edu>
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 17:32:32 -0500
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <E2650620-CC0D-42D7-A775-A44BB4105F76@csperkins.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1456957954; bh=tYFurNM2mvJ+LPEhtRL9rzuS0if37/6h79umlf+5xTc=; h=Received:Received:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=tic0J3lvJO7L43Sz59K/y+n3Qon+z1uKZxddwOfe2Y5eGYnKYQPlq+uBjpWw7KKTt j08LmZYg04TB50exI+LYhqKVk2mFlGjnRHv53B2l9ia8llSPL9czH8xfbewn9jnoGd erg98KNUJc2bW4AAzexSrYgaUjsvfB6sNalIZ0YuBNkdxj6+I2DSGmdNZSGV1vsiAp a9p3DpQev12OlBCP3iy5e8v2BeKxUMp50hxxr1gIJXby+Fk03CNCN788qQ6xpCVGZv 2JoTZQlMA4uAlbiQ/RTaeZbtfeYfKB5ZrQPjOrg7D5/r4lI9A3pyZMpMIyKArMXbfv rxlr1QjAxoPSg==
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mmusic/Hq2rC7ig_A8G3EqZi2Oft_IiSEU>
Cc: "mmusic@ietf.org" <mmusic@ietf.org>, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] Offer/Answer PT Questions - text proposal
X-BeenThere: mmusic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multiparty Multimedia Session Control Working Group <mmusic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/mmusic>, <mailto:mmusic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mmusic/>
List-Post: <mailto:mmusic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:mmusic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic>, <mailto:mmusic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 22:32:36 -0000

On 3/2/16 5:03 PM, Colin Perkins wrote:
>> On 1 Mar 2016, at 19:06, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>> On 3/1/16 1:23 PM, Roman Shpount wrote:
>>
>>> What really bugs me about this discussion is that it is extremely
>>> difficult to determine when RTP session is started or stopped based on
>>> O/A exchanges. Because of this it is difficult to determine when it is
>>> safe to reuse PT for something else just by looking at O/A.
>>
>> Well, can we assume that if the addr/port changes at one of the ends then this is to be a new RTP session?
>
> The RTP session is tied to the shared SSRC space. If the same SSRCs are valid after the change, it’s the same RTP session.

Fine. But how do the participants in the O/A session discover that the 
SSRC space has changed?

In general I assume that the O/A is what tells them this sort of stuff. 
I guess it can also be learned via RTCP. But if the one end decides to 
switch to a new RTP session, without signaling this change via O/A, I 
assume that things will be messed up until a bunch of RTCP stuff has 
been exchanged. That doesn't seem graceful.

So, while mechanically it is possible to make such a change without 
signaling it, in practice it seems like a bad idea.

But I also don't see how to signal a change in RTP session via O/A. 
Superficially, it seems like changing the addr/port is *likely* to mean 
you have a new RTP session. But that isn't *necessarily* true. It could 
be you are simply changing to a different path to the same target.

	Thanks,
	Paul