Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful
"Martin J. Dürst" <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Mon, 11 September 2023 05:06 UTC
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To: bumblefudge von CASA <bumblefudge@learningproof.xyz>, "multiformats@ietfa.amsl.com" <multiformats@ietfa.amsl.com>
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From: "Martin J. Dürst" <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
Organization: Aoyama Gakuin University
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multiformats/-FGj7J_J7Y_S5l4wXauafb9__DE>
Subject: Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful
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On 2023-09-07 21:09, bumblefudge von CASA wrote: > Dear Prof Bormann and Melvin Carvalho: > > Thank you very much for your bibliographic erratum and expression of interest, respectively. They're incorporated below in the longer response. > > Dear Mike Jones: > > Thank you for taking the time to spell out your feedback. I believe that clarifying the spec in a few places can address most of your concerns. [snip] >> 2. The stated purpose of "multibase<https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-multiformats-multibase-08.html>" is "Unfortunately, it's not always clear what base encoding is used; that's where this specification comes in. It answers the question: Given data 'd' encoded into text 's', what base is it encoded with?", which is wholly unnecessary. Successful standards DEFINE what encoding is used where. For instance, https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7518.html#section-6.2.1.2 defines that "x" is base64url encoded. No guesswork or prefixing is necessary or useful. > > Successful standards for self-describing encodings have also been adopted by communities rather than relying on fixed registries and protocols that define encodings in advance and universally. While it could be argued that interoperability with those kinds of protocol could be difficult, inefficient, or, in some cases, even zero-sum, I do not feel a universal claim to harmfulness is warranted, particularly without defining the criterion and context of interoperability. There are examples both of where a single encoding is best, and when allowing some variety is best. And there are examples where the best choice varied over time. The difficulty may be to figure out which case one is looking at. Just because different people prefer different things isn't a reason to invent some "multi"thing; it may just be a sign that the consensus process isn't going too well (yet). [longish example, sorry; you may skip to the end] As an example, character encodings (usually designated using the "charset" parameter) for the Web evolved from a start with a single, undeclared character encoding (iso-8859-1, covering most of Western Europe). The reason for this was that it was simplest to start this way, and the choice of encoding resulted from the time and place the Web was created (1989 in Geneva). Later, the charset parameter on the Content-Type header field was introduced. This allowed a wide variety of character encodings covering wide swaths of the world's scripts and languages. This was necessary at a time when a uniform, global encoding was "in the making", but not yet widely available. Browsers were supporting some subsets of character encodings, and people may have chosen their browsers (among else) based on what character encodings it supported. In RFC 2070 (https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2070), we managed to at least nail down numeric character references (e.g. ꯍ) in HTML to Unicode. Later, Unicode, in the form of UTF-8, became more and more popular, to the extent that the WhatWG spec simply calls it "The encoding" (see https://encoding.spec.whatwg.org/#the-encoding). Nowadays, use of UTF-8 is given at 98% of the Web (see https://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/character_encoding). Other encodings are still in use, and browsers support them because it's not too much work to keep old code. But they have mostly made it invisible for the user (see e.g. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/text-encoding-no-longer-available-firefox-menu). As for registration of new "charset"s, effectively nothing is going on, because there's no need for anything new. UTF-8 covers everything there is, and if it's not in Unicode, it's easier to deploy by adding it to Unicode than be defining a new "charset". And many if not all new protocols/formats restrict themselves to UTF-8 only these days, for obvious reasons. [end of longish example] Multibase deals with something much simpler than characters, namely bytes. The different bases were mostly introduced because the different contexts where the data would be carried had different restrictions on the set of usable characters. Putting various bases together with multibase means that such restrictions can't be made. So the question remains: Why multiple bases? The conclusion should be that multiple bases are not needed. In context, it should always be clear what base is used. And there should be no "out of context". If you are out of context, then you might not even know that you deal with a multibase "thingy". If you have to specify that you're dealing with multibase, you can as well specify that you are dealing with baseX (where X is a single choice). Interest in decentralization shouldn't mean that each and every element of a protocol is decentralized with many more options than necessary. Ideally, the options are available only at those points where they matter, but at all points where they matter. For base encodings, they don't matter; a single option (which is the same as no option) in each specific place is enough. Regards, Martin.
- [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Michael Jones
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Michael Jones
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Melvin Carvalho
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful bumblefudge von CASA
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Melvin Carvalho
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Orie Steele
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Orie Steele
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Michael Jones
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Richard Barnes
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Melvin Carvalho
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Robin Berjon
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Melvin Carvalho
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Robin Berjon
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Melvin Carvalho
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful bumblefudge von CASA
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Robin Berjon
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Melvin Carvalho
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Robin Berjon
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Melvin Carvalho
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Robin Berjon
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Orie Steele
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Aaron Goldman
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Melvin Carvalho
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Manu Sporny
- Re: [Multiformats] Multiformats Considered Harmful Melvin Carvalho