Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper designation of receiver
"Eric Voit (evoit)" <evoit@cisco.com> Mon, 02 July 2018 17:09 UTC
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From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" <evoit@cisco.com>
To: Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com>
CC: "kwatsen@juniper.net" <kwatsen@juniper.net>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper designation of receiver
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Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2018 17:09:20 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper designation of receiver
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> From: Martin Bjorklund, June 29, 2018 5:06 AM > > Hi, > > "Eric Voit (evoit)" <evoit@cisco.com> wrote: > > Martin, > > one question specifically to you below. (search for **Martin) > > See inline > > > > > Kent, > > in line... > > > > > From: Kent Watsen, June 26, 2018 9:47 PM > > [...] > > > > > So can we take out address and finally be done? That would be a good > > > thing. > > > > > > Yes, take out the address leaf but I think that, if we want to > > > progress the SN draft along with a transport binding definition that > > > doesn't depend on the ietf-*conf-server modules, then we might > > > define something else > > > like: > > > > > > module ietf-netconf-no-crypto-subscribed-notifications { > > > prefix nncsn; > > > import ietf-subscribed-notifications { prefix sn; } > > > > > > container implicit-netconf-receivers { > > > list implicit-netconf-receiver { > > > key name; > > > leaf name { ... } > > > leaf address { ... } > > > leaf port { ... } > > > } > > > } > > > augment "/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription/sn:receivers/sn:receiver" { > > > if-feature "subscription-support"; > > > when 'derived-from(../../../transport, "nsn:netconf")'; > > > leaf netconf-endpoint { > > > type leafref { > > > path "/nncsn:implicit-netconf-receivers/nnccs:implicit-netconf-" > > > + "receiver/nnccs:name"; > > > } > > > } > > > } > > > ... > > > } > > > > **Martin, are you ok with this. If you are and there are no other > > **objections, I will add this and we can be done with this thread. > > **Which would be progress. Otherwise, let's just leave things as they > > **are. > > No, but it might be that I don't really understand what you propose. > > What is "NETCONF no crypto"? Comparing with "ietf-netconf-server" > model, you don't have the "server-identity". How can this be secure? I am fine with things the way they are. Above Kent was attempting to provide a lightweight call home structure as a surrogate for the previous "address" and "port". Since we can't easily get to consensus on a lightweight structure, we should just leave this up to vendor until ietf-netconf-server.yang is available. This thread has already shown that valid augmentations to the subscription model may be constructed to into receivers. > Is the reason for this to avoid a dependency to "draft-ietf-netconf-netconf- > client-server" from "draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-event-notifications"? > > I would rather keep this dependency and ensure the WG finishes the client- > server model. (This work was adopted by the WG in 2014 which is even earlier > than the notif drafts...) I have updated the text to point to ietf-netconf-server.yang as an informational for vendors who want to implement a call home structure. As ways of adding the leafref to ietf-netconf-server.yang exist, I don't think it necessary to wait for that ecosystem of drafts to conclude. > > BTW: adding back address and port also solves the "how do we have a > > common transport across multiple configured receivers". > > > > > I don't quite understand how the server is supposed to know how to > > > configure the call-home parameters or the transport parameters, but > > > at least this would be on par with what you had before. > > > > Yes. > > > > > >> <big snip/> > > > >> We agree above that the ietf-*conf-server module may not be > > > *implemented*, and > > > >> yet subscriptions still need to be configured > > I think it is ok to require an implementation of configured subscriptions that > use the standard "nsn:netconf" transport to also implement the ietf-netconf- > server module. If a vendor doesn't want this, it can define another transport > identity. I have updated the text to point to ietf-netconf-server.yang as an informational reference. Requiring an implementation of NETCONF configured subscriptions to use the full evolving ecosystem of ietf-netconf-server.yang which can be determined later. Eric > /martin > > > > >> leafref- > > > ing > > > >> becomes the issue. This is why I'm suggesting the netconf-notif YANG > > > module > > > >> *use* the netconf-server-group itself. This way, when the > > > >> *netconf-notif > > > draft > > > >> is implemented, its own definition comes into play. When done > > > >> this way, > > > the > > > >> flag would no longer be needed since the entire netconf-server > > > >> instance > > > would > > > >> be SN-specific. > > > > > > > > The NETCONF-Notif draft needs to be implemented now for dynamic > > > subscriptions. > > > > > > From above, and I can't ascertain why this is, when dynamic > > > subscriptions don't appear to utilize the "netconf" identity in any > > > way... > > > > No, but non-YANG Sections 5, 7, & 8 is needed. Plus many of the > > examples. > > > > > > An update to NETCONF-notif for configured subscriptions is > > > > possible to insert the call-home leafref (or insert new grouping). > > > > But this update becomes unnecessary if ietf-netconf-server.yang is > > > > augmented as described above. > > > > > > Perhaps, but it seems unnatural to do it this way. What makes sense > > > to me is for the module that claims to be the transport-binding > > > module to provide the configuration for binding the transport. > > > > At this point we do have a relatively minor difference of option which > > need not impact the closing the current > > draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-event-notifications. > > > > > >> >> That said, I have to say that I'm not entirely sure if I > > > >> >> understand if what is planned is legal. For instance, in a > > > >> >> normal NETCONF call-home situation, > > > the > > > >> >> NETCONF session begins with both sides sending <hello> > > > >> >> messages and > > > then > > > >> >> the server waiting for the client to send RPCs, which might > > > >> >> include a > > > 5277 > > > >> >> <create-subscription>, after which the <notifications> begin to flow. > > > >> >> Is > > > >> >> this the same here, or are you expecting the <notification> > > > >> >> messages to > > > start > > > >> >> flowing immediately? > > > >> > > > > >> > A subscription started notification will be sent after the > > > >> > hellos are > > > successful. > > > >> > Can you point to something in RFC 6241 which says a > > > >> > <notification> can't > > > be > > > >> sent > > > >> > until an RPC is sent from the client? > > > >> > > > >> It's not a very good reference, but I found this (emphasis added): > > > >> > > > >> o client: Invokes protocol operations on a server. In addition, a > > > >> client can *subscribe* to receive notifications from a server. > > > >> > > > >> We should ask the WG. All I know is that it's always been that > > > >> the client > > > does > > > >> something to initiate server behavior. Admittedly, this is kind > > > >> of a new > > > thing, > > > >> and it might be okay, but I think it warrants review by others. > > > > > > > > You are welcome to make the request. > > > > > > Eric, you are the Editor. But beware, this could blow up and we > > > decide to drop the netconf and restconf protocols bindings entirely > > > and only focus on transport bindings for things like gRPC and > > > udp-pub-channel. If NC/RC are needed, then the server could > > > configure a standard call-home connection (via the ietf-*conf-server > > > modules) from which the client can issue a start a dynamic > > > subscription. Just thinking this might be a better win. > > > > Things are far easier with HTTP based transports, because you must get > > an explicit OK from a subscription-started before sending any > > <notification>. See RESTCONF-notif for configured subscriptions which > > used no RESTCONF at all for this function. > > > > Eric > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > Kent // contributor > > > > >
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Kent Watsen
- [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper designat… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] IETF 101 SN Question 1: Proper desi… Eric Voit (evoit)