Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice?

[Andy Bierman <[e-mail]>]

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Robert Wilton <[e-mail]> wrote:

>
>
> On 01/08/2018 17:09, Andy Bierman wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Robert Wilton <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 31/07/2018 21:31, Andy Bierman wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) <[e-mail]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder, July 31, 2018 1:48 PM
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 08:41:42PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > The empty mandatory choice does provide value since it requires that
>>> > > some transport-specific parameters are configured.  However, can we
>>> > > assume that all transports require configuration parameters here?
>>> >
>>> > Can you have a receiver without any transport parameters?
>>> >
>>> > > It is probably safest to not have a mandatory choice, and instead
>>> > > ensure that each transport augements the proper params -- and since
>>> > > this is YANG 1.1, the transport params that are augmented can
>>> actually
>>> > > be marked as mandatory.
>>> >
>>> > Frankly, an empty mandatory choice quite clearly says "this is
>>> incomplete and
>>> > unusable without an augmentation".
>>>
>>> My read above is the YANG doctor's position is that we should *not* use
>>> the empty mandatory choice.  Let me know if I got this wrong.
>>>
>>>
>> I do not think a consensus call has been done yet, but I agree with
>> Juergen
>> and already raised the point that YANG conformance does not handle a
>> "MUST augment" use-case very well.
>>
>> I think that "empty choice + mandatory true" it is OK from a conformance
>> perspective.  The concept seems similar to an programmatic interface,
>> abstract class, or even the abstract identity idea that has been proposed
>> for YANG.  If a server implements the module but no augments of the choice
>> then it cannot be configured because the constraint will always fail.
>> Andy, is your concern that tooling will warn that part of the model is
>> unusable?
>>
>
> That is possible.
> I agree with Juergen that a mandatory empty choice clearly indicates that
> the module is incomplete
> and unusable on its own.  Is that a feature?
>
> Yes, making that indication is the whole purpose of adding the "mandatory:
> true" to the empty choice.  Note, that I see that the "mandatory true" is
> there to say that every configured subscription must have a transport
> configured, which if true, doesn't seem unreasonable.  I.e. my main point
> is that I don't have an issue with this generic YANG design.
>
>

It just seems strange that the model designers are positive the solution
belongs in a case-stmt inside
this choice.  So positive that MUST is in order, which means harm to the
Internet will
happen if this choice is not provided, with no possibility of any exception
ever.
That's why I suggested SHOULD in the first place, which would go in the
description-stmt.

I can imagine a vendor augmenting this choice with a <not-used/> leaf, just
to get rid of the
validation error.


Andy

In this particular instance, I'm also fine if "mandatory: true" is left
> out, but I don't really agree with writing the equivalent of "mandatory:
> true" in the description, that seems like a poor compromise.
>
> However, this is probably all bike-shedding.  I think that any of the
> discussed solutions is acceptable, as long as it is obvious to the readers
> of the YANG modules that a case statement must be provided for it to be
> useful, and I make the assumption that sane vendors won't enable the
> "configured" feature, if there is no actual way of configuring usable
> subscriptions.
>
> Perhaps Eric can propose his preferred choice, and we can see if anyone
> still objects, otherwise maybe we can move on?
>
> Thanks,
> Rob
>
>
>
>
> Andy
>
>
>>
>> I have to say that much prefer the option of putting "mandatory: true" in
>> the choice than "MUST provide an implementation" in the description because
>> the former is machine readable whilst the latter is not.
>>
>> However, I would also be fine not to have the "mandatory: true", but with
>> the choice description to state something along the lines that the empty
>> choice is to allow for augmentations of different transports, and
>> configured subscriptions may not be usable unless at least one transport
>> case statement is available."  But perhaps some implementation will provide
>> the flexibility of defining a single transport for all subscriptions (if
>> this is feasible).
>>
>> One other observation that could affect the decision here is that YANG
>> allows "mandatory: true" to be removed in a future revision in a backwards
>> compatible way, but doesn't allow it to be added.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Rob
>>
>>
>>
>> I prefer the MUST be in the description-stmt for the choice,
>> instead of "mandatory true". (I prefer SHOULD but if the WG wants MUST)
>>
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> That would mean that each transport document supporting configured
>>> subscriptions would then augment transport specific parameters to
>>> "/subscriptions/subscription/receivers/receiver".   And (assuming the
>>> "single transport" decision of IETF100 isn't changed), that the identity
>>> "transport" could be leveraged to enforce that only a single transport
>>> specific set of credentials are associated with a receiver.
>>>
>>> A sample YANG augmentation for NETCONF would then look like:
>>>
>>> module ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications {
>>>
>>>   prefix nsn;
>>>
>>>   import ietf-netconf-client { prefix ncc; }
>>>   import ietf-subscribed-notifications { prefix sn; }
>>>
>>>   identity netconf {
>>>     base sn:transport;
>>>     base sn:inline-address;
>>>     description
>>>       "NETCONF is used as a transport for notification messages and
>>>        state change notifications.";
>>>   }
>>>
>>>   augment "/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription/sn:receivers/sn:receiver" {
>>>    when 'derived-from(../../../transport, "nsn:netconf")';
>>>    description
>>>       "This augmentation allows NETCONF specific parameters to be
>>>       exposed for a receiver.";
>>>     leaf netconf-endpoint {
>>>       type leafref {
>>>         path "/ncc:netconf-client/ncc:initiate/ncc:netconf-server" +
>>>                 "/ncc:endpoints/ncc:endpoint/ncc:name";
>>>       }
>>>       mandatory true;
>>>       description
>>>         "Remote client which need to initiate the NETCONF transport if
>>>         an existing NETCONF session from that client is not available.";
>>>     }
>>>   }
>>> }
>>>
>>> Which results in:
>>>   +--rw subscriptions
>>>      +--rw subscription*
>>>         +--rw transport         transport  {configured}?
>>>         +--rw receivers
>>>            +--rw receiver*
>>>               +--rw nsn:netconf-endpoint    leafref
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>>
>>> > /js
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
>>> > Phone: [phone]         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Campus+Ring+1+%7C+28759+Bremen+%7C+Germany&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>> > Fax:   [phone]         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> yang-doctors mailing [e-mail]://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors
>>
>>
>>
>
>