Re: [netmod] adoption poll for yang-versioning-reqs-02

Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> Tue, 19 March 2019 15:12 UTC

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Subject: Re: [netmod] adoption poll for yang-versioning-reqs-02
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Hi,

I have read this document, and I do not think it should be adopted.

I object to the idea that we should allow non-backwards-compatible
changes to published YANG modules.

The draft motivates this idea with:

   we must recognize that many YANG
   modules are actually generated YANG modules (for example, from
   internal databases)

I do not agree that we should change what we allow in published
modules b/c of this.

It also motivates this idea with:

   The points made above lead to the logical conclusion that the
   standardized YANG modules have to be perfect on day one (at least the
   structure and meaning), which in turn might explain why IETF YANG
   modules take so long to standardize.

I disagree with this.  First of all, we have already published
revision two of several YANG modules (ietf-inet-types, ietf-yang-type,
ietf-interfaces, ietf-ip, ietf-routing, ...), so the statement that
"standardized YANG modules have to be perfect on day one" is simply
not true.

Second, I don't think the upgrade rules are the reason it takes a long
time to standardize IETF models (I think it has to do with the process
itself, including the fact that models get reviews from many different
people with different background.)  [BTW, is it true that drafts with
YANG models take longer time from wg -00 to published RFC than other
drafts?]


This said, I think there are some important points that the draft
raises, and that I think we should continue to work on; specifically
2.3, 2.5, 2.6, 2.7.  But I don't think that these areas require
changes to the versioning scheme, and I think it is a mistake to
include these areas in this draft.

Some comments on section 4, The Problem Statement:

   o  Any non-backwards-compatible change of a definition requires
      either a new module name or a new path.  This has been found
      costly to support in implementations, in particular on the client
      side.

Yes I agree there is a cost associated with this.  But I have come
across vendor modules that make NBC changes w/o introducing a new
path, and this is also costly to handle.

   o  Since non-backwards-compatible changes require either a new module
      name or a new path, such changes will impact other modules that
      import definitions.  In fact, with the current module versioning
      scheme other modules have to opt-in in order to use the new
      version.  This essentially leads to a ripple effect where a non-
      backwards-compatible change of a core module causes updates on a
      potentially large number of dependent modules.

This is by design.  We cannot have a situation where a legal
modification to a module leads to other modules becoming invalid.

   o  YANG has a mechanism to mark definitions deprecated but it leaves
      it open whether implementations are expected to implement
      deprecated definitions and there is no way (other than trial and
      error) for a client to find out whether deprecated definitions are
      supported by a given implementation.

As I wrote above, I agree that this is a problem that should be
solved.  But this is not a motivation for changing YANG versioning.

   o  YANG does not have a robust mechanism to document which data
      definitions have changed and to provide guidance how
      implementations should deal with the change.  While it is possible
      to have this described in general description statements, having
      these details embedded in general description statements does not
      make this information accessible to tools.

This might also be worth exploring, but this is not a motivation for
changing YANG versioning.



/martin



Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:
> Seeing as how we all need to read this draft anyways, in preparation for our meeting in Prague, it seems like a good time for this poll.  Thusly, this email begins a 1-week adoption poll for:
> 
>     https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-verdt-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-02 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-verdt-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-02>
> 
> Please voice your support or objections before March 20.
> 
> Note that this draft defines *requirements* and its intended status is "Informational."   I believe that it is good for WGs to formalize requirements, even taking such drafts thru Last Call, in order to ensure consensus on the requirements.  This is the "adoption" call, to ascertain if the WG agrees with that statement; if adopted, a separate "last call" will be issued to ensure to correctness of the draft's content.
> 
> Kent (and Lou and Joel)
> 
>