Re: [netmod] [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang-10.txt

Jürgen Schönwälder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> Thu, 14 April 2022 20:13 UTC

Return-Path: <J.Schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48B5B3A12A3; Thu, 14 Apr 2022 13:13:15 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.91
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=jacobsuniversity.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HUH2Z0AklKRu; Thu, 14 Apr 2022 13:13:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EUR01-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-ve1eur01on0630.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe1f::630]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 43DDF3A0E8E; Thu, 14 Apr 2022 13:13:10 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=FPY5raFZywzjfQNu7MbsDdmfMaUw0T/s5TGD+dXuRftmsHe7+aWbLZ57vUaZCbJf6K3mw4UNsNZIzAlGoMwI3mbNdWWBg/dSHbIGapZp/1iEwSXpKaq0ljkSq2IgN3C72ykursZj7jDgJ41R8IQINLZaU4KhyXs/zHjNoCbe3/5VKm0zzEvNN/URUcNzk/utWqguoF1SXvGjU4sImsRtuVV0CxPcyvEzTAQ7PmBHyEW0W0DmFGVSrFfHAGlNXl00ZPU1CjXvVkmgLU+OqAmpayHBoMIWoTBeFo8fjsWyR9wJ+PDSyHo36QfHoRlbZeo9Ngd1jVcNsZIhpImM0X8QVA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=Q2iYimlj0DDw+QO/RJdixZ1XdZ/BGkC8hZvx356gUDw=; b=jdhpQjETJEVZS8x9GflPpeaL7bQNbJtKcU0zJPSQ76uHK63VIVzetBTbT1uKrQp/1KplRb9pPlTl4XyRMHajv56j8DZFqQICaJj8rK7f3BjcvOjZtHpY+OoOa/CYBRNURNPn1I2dmyGTuJ656jATunUus3906bQWC+nOXI7P5KnJFVY/Tob8VXidJNvqT0QTBUjNVVkKZmrafuC0RcQ8Wte4+6B9hRq0QyfgIoeoYw4nHjFilhDlzPROcWGYU9osvcshBJaF0Pyij2J4IlbcoMjCySU0riJtA11QHd8W16Ost/nAcrmJ3ogJnhcbR1wI6/3ggQ7EkHy9E9muCY7hvA==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=jacobs-university.de; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=jacobs-university.de; dkim=pass header.d=jacobs-university.de; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jacobsuniversity.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-jacobsuniversity-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=Q2iYimlj0DDw+QO/RJdixZ1XdZ/BGkC8hZvx356gUDw=; b=jBBdNtmMe7lYw8t90FBCSFfqzmkBTczWM4whUGxI291t+GUnoY4FAgkAyyuR+K+vF4qMgX13VsaI4oLL8aBBTsT0Tj0V/vU+nM1v/0VEttUB5P5vjxjpoFF1r4jr84mb7MV4ce6VwrrWe+tAQRjruum7aF7c7gFWr0sLsA8y4j8=
Authentication-Results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=jacobs-university.de;
Received: from GVXP190MB1991.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:150:3::6) by PR3P190MB0828.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:102:80::22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5164.20; Thu, 14 Apr 2022 20:13:06 +0000
Received: from GVXP190MB1991.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::5929:c22b:95d2:40a2]) by GVXP190MB1991.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::5929:c22b:95d2:40a2%5]) with mapi id 15.20.5144.029; Thu, 14 Apr 2022 20:13:05 +0000
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 22:13:04 +0200
From: Jürgen Schönwälder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
To: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Martin Björklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <20220414201304.mrx72eycemhb2q6q@anna>
Reply-To: Jürgen Schönwälder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Martin Björklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
References: <BY5PR11MB41966C83474B52949C2B660FB5EF9@BY5PR11MB4196.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <20220414.152331.1522036488630734842.id@4668.se> <20220414134730.62e3fyhl7e4pvuz4@anna> <20220414.160345.1807693114840953491.id@4668.se> <1347E93F-F193-4677-8070-5E28EDB2F14F@cisco.com> <CABCOCHTPZ+ieLeNRhDR7AmyYYhEgq2bjyHsW-ARM3_9sAip0vQ@mail.gmail.com> <20220414193836.ufqzfhnitb5l5w3h@anna> <CABCOCHQApdv7U15kYZFGopeFE8dR9Xr9SN9vSrwWobwoX-9jyg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
In-Reply-To: <CABCOCHQApdv7U15kYZFGopeFE8dR9Xr9SN9vSrwWobwoX-9jyg@mail.gmail.com>
X-ClientProxiedBy: AM0PR03CA0008.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:208:14::21) To GVXP190MB1991.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:150:3::6)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email
X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 8b8b2eb0-91e3-4714-f0c2-08da1e532fb3
X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: PR3P190MB0828:EE_
X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: <PR3P190MB082872350AFC6775EE806B82DEEF9@PR3P190MB0828.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0
X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;
X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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
X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:GVXP190MB1991.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230001)(7916004)(366004)(83380400001)(52116002)(6506007)(1076003)(2906002)(3450700001)(186003)(26005)(86362001)(6916009)(38350700002)(38100700002)(66574015)(66556008)(9686003)(8676002)(66946007)(4326008)(66476007)(54906003)(6512007)(8936002)(5660300002)(33716001)(40140700001)(85182001)(6486002)(498600001)(85202003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101;
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: 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
X-OriginatorOrg: jacobs-university.de
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8b8b2eb0-91e3-4714-f0c2-08da1e532fb3
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: GVXP190MB1991.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Apr 2022 20:13:05.8724 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: f78e973e-5c0b-4ab8-bbd7-9887c95a8ebd
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: qq/x3ULx4jhJ1W07fhMFO5beQ8w6V6YHieTrRRLOZ3pUPuVb+7lD+POVdLPeZsMnyAG3Rj185QteVhyyYbgh1ph0w1S72mtq+JJ2asSrTAs=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PR3P190MB0828
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/cZ905MVDcpAVYVkfikZL82N7QCs>
Subject: Re: [netmod] [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang-10.txt
X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: NETMOD WG list <netmod.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/netmod>, <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/netmod/>
List-Post: <mailto:netmod@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod>, <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 20:13:16 -0000

On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 12:48:18PM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote:

> The proposal is for a 2 year phase to change modules
> that really do want a zone index.  It is not blindly removing the zone
> index.

People not reading type definitions will also not read a warning
signs. This is blindly removing the zone index in two years, I hardly
see a difference from doing the same (damage) today.

Lets start with one of the oldest modules affected, RFC 7317. The
ietf-system module is using ip-address correctly (allowing DNS servers
to be reachable via link-local addresses). So who is going to revise
RFC 7317 in the two years? It would be strange to file an errata
addressing a problem that will break the module in two years from
now. In fact, there is no problem in RFC 7317, the problem is that we
break the YANG module update rules that protect YANG modules from
getting broken by updates to other YANG modules.

And we do all of this because the name ip-address in hindsight is
confusing?

As you pointed out, an implementer can choose to ignore the optional
zone index. However, if we remove the optional zone index, then
implementors have no choice anymore since the data model by design
prevents a meaningful implementation that works with link-local
addresses. The key is that we have to trust data model writers to pick
the right type. The assumption that every author who used ip-address
really wanted ip-address-no-zone is very wild idea.

/js (feeling lost in the modern software world)

-- 
Jürgen Schönwälder              Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>