Re: [Ntp] NTS IANA request

Harlan,

As we have discussed privately, this type of email response is not 
helpful.
Please limit your comments on the mailing list to specific technical 
concerns.

Thank you!
Karen

On 6 Jun 2019, at 17:42, Harlan Stenn wrote:

> As best as I can tell, the following is total rubbish.
>
> H
>
> On 6/6/2019 11:28 AM, Daniel Franke wrote:
>> As a slight tangent, we never concluded the discussion as to what
>> we're going to do about the fact that so many ISPs are dropping
>> 123/udp traffic with payloads larger than 48 bytes. I think we got as
>> far as concluding:
>>
>> 1. We're never going to persuade enough ISPs to change their policy,
>> making 123/udp basically doomed.
>> 2. NTS-KE's port negotiation record gives us all the mechanism we 
>> need
>> in order to run NTP-with-NTS over an alternate port.
>>
>> But that left an unresolved question: do we allocate a fixed 
>> alternate
>> UDP port, or should servers ask the OS for a dynamic port and then 
>> use
>> NTS-KE to advertise whatever the OS assigns to them? Both choices 
>> have
>> firewall-related drawbacks. If we use a fixed port, we risk landing
>> ourselves right back in the same situation we're in today with 123. 
>> At
>> minimum, to protect ourselves from this, the NTF would have to commit
>> to adding some code to ntpd such that it will refuse to ever send 
>> mode
>> 6 or 7 responses over the new port no matter what configuration the
>> user gives it. (Yes, mode 6 too, because mode 6 still amplifies, just
>> not as severely as mode 7 does). If we use a dynamic port, then it
>> becomes much harder for ISPs to block us, but it also becomes harder
>> for corporate firewalls with a default-deny-all policy to let us
>> through.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 1:06 PM Salz, Rich <rsalz@akamai.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>    I'm strongly opposed to modifying NTS-KE to involve sending a 
>>>> STARTTLS
>>>     as a first step of the handshake. I don't want to make a 
>>> breaking
>>>     change to a protocol that's passed WGLC and has four 
>>> interoperating
>>>     implementations in order to accommodate a protocol that has 
>>> never been
>>>     implemented and whose specification consists of three vague 
>>> sentences
>>>     in an unadopted and expired I-D.
>>>
>>> I wasn't strongly advocating either mechanism, just trying to 
>>> explain how things could share a port if that's what we wanted to 
>>> do.
>>>
>>> For the record, since I see no definition of NTP/TLS, I am in favor 
>>> of assigning 123/TCP to NTS.
>>>
>>>
>>
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>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp
>>
>
> -- 
> Harlan Stenn, Network Time Foundation
> http://nwtime.org - be a Member!
>
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