Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft-hunt-oauth-v2-user-a4c-05.txt
Takahiko Kawasaki <daru.tk@gmail.com> Wed, 23 July 2014 18:12 UTC
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References: <201407221830.s6MIUYrf031075@outgoing.mit.edu> <CABzCy2CxNQ2d3=m9Bvc0+k6ikqZkwb940HwskvnAGvKoGnteSw@mail.gmail.com> <DE16B8D3-3590-45B3-BE08-D1A7CF9EF0FB@oracle.com> <CABzCy2B_iB1ZBskFJObKJjnftEH1STVyhx1-AE6Chrj76-se8g@mail.gmail.com> <F7F8C65F-C805-4C29-86F0-1835B7A80E3F@oracle.com> <4E1F6AAD24975D4BA5B16804296739439ADDD8F2@TK5EX14MBXC294.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <CAEayHEM4SAM_2DwF8ceC4sen++o7azZnP16xDR8EodqSkxFajA@mail.gmail.com> <04E6EF5C-F36C-4987-9BA6-AF92408EEFCE@mitre.org> <CAEayHENPDasnJ8JBgxRuZSkcWg3+=1g6gOJzodWAJtHqMmc_Ww@mail.gmail.com> <CABzCy2CWN81to7nAtxsnCjSiXFhzh+iOu-2zyg+cjfCSgQZqbQ@mail.gmail.com> <2cc10b23a4238ec0c76087b09d1d290a@lodderstedt.net> <6859A770-F6D2-4481-BD5F-2E73779BC745@ve7jtb.com> <4E1F6AAD24975D4BA5B16804296739439ADDE116@TK5EX14MBXC294.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 03:12:22 +0900
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From: Takahiko Kawasaki <daru.tk@gmail.com>
To: Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com>
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft-hunt-oauth-v2-user-a4c-05.txt
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Hello, (1) RFC 6749 grant_type=authorization_code response={"access_token":...} (2) OpenID Connect Core grant_type=authorization_code response={"access_token":..., "id_token":...} (3) Currently being discussed (3)-1 grant_type=authorization_code response_type=id_token (a new parameter for the token endpoint) response={"id_token":...} (3)-2 grant_type=something_new (a new value for the token endpoint) response={"id_token":...} (3)-3 response_type=something_new (a new value for the authz endpoint) grant_type=something_new However, taking a logical expansion below into account, (4) Not being discussed yet, but logically possible grant_type=password response={"id_token":...} it seems "grant_type" should be treated as a parameter to specify just a 'flow'. IMHO, what tokens should be included in the response from the token endpoint should be specified by another different means. For example, "response_type" (a new parameter for the *token* endpoint) as suggested by Nat. Nat> response_type Nat> OPTIONAL. A string that expresses what tokens are to be returned Nat> from the Token Endpoint. Extension specifications may use this Nat> parameter to explicitly expressing the desire to obtain a Nat> particular type of token. If asked, I would add the following: The default value of "response_type" is "token" which means that an access token is requested. However, when the following conditions are satisfied, the default value is "token id_token". Condition-1: grant_type=authorization_code Condition-2: The authorization code was issued at the authorization endpoint with 'openid' scope. -- Best Regards, Takahiko Kawasaki 2014-07-24 2:39 GMT+09:00 Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com>: > You need the alternative response_type value (“code_for_id_token” in the > A4C draft) to tell the Authorization Server to return a code to be used > with the new grant type, rather than one to use with the > “authorization_code” grant type (which is what response_type=code does). > > > > *From:* OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *John Bradley > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:33 AM > *To:* torsten@lodderstedt.net > > *Cc:* oauth@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for > draft-hunt-oauth-v2-user-a4c-05.txt > > > > If we use the token endpoint then a new grant_type is the best way. > > > > It sort of overloads code, but that is better than messing with > response_type for the authorization endpoint to change the response from > the token_endpoint. That is in my opinion a champion bad idea. > > > > In discussions developing Connect we decided not to open this can of worms > because no good would come of it. > > > > The token_endpoint returns a access token. Nothing requires scope to be > associates with the token. > > > > That is the best solution. No change required. Better interoperability > in my opinion. > > > > Still on my way to TO, getting in later today. > > > > John B. > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jul 23, 2014, at 12:15 PM, torsten@lodderstedt.net wrote: > > The "response type" of the token endpoint is controlled by the value of > the parameter "grant_type". So there is no need to introduce a new > parameter. > > wrt to a potential "no_access_token" grant type. I do not consider this a > good idea as it changes the semantics of the token endpoint (as already > pointed out by Thomas). This endpoint ALWAYS responds with an access token > to any grant type. I therefore would prefer to use another endpoint for the > intended purpose. > > regards, > Torsten. > > > > Am 23.07.2014 13:04, schrieb Nat Sakimura: > > IMHO, changing the semantics of "response_type" @ authz endpoint this > way is not a good thing. > > > > Instead, defining a new parameter "response_type" @ token endpoint, as I > described in my previous message, > > probably is better. At least, it does not change the semantics of the > parameters of RFC6749. > > > > Nat > > > > 2014-07-23 12:48 GMT-04:00 Thomas Broyer <t.broyer@gmail.com>: > > No, I mean response_type=none and response_type=id_token don't generate a > code or access token so you don't use the Token Endpoint (which is not the > same as the Authentication Endpoint BTW). > > With response_type=code_for_id_token, you get a code and exchange it for > an id_token only, rather than an access_token, so you're changing the > semantics of the Token Endpoint. > > > > I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just that you can't really compare none > and id_token with code_for_id_token. > > > > On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 6:45 PM, Richer, Justin P. <jricher@mitre.org> > wrote: > > It's only "not using the token endpoint" because the token endpoint > copy-pasted and renamed the authentication endpoint. > > > > -- Justin > > > > On Jul 23, 2014, at 9:30 AM, Thomas Broyer <t.broyer@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Except that these are about not using the Token Endpoint at all, whereas > the current proposal is about the Token Endpoint not returning an > access_token field in the JSON. > > > > On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 4:26 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> > wrote: > > The response_type "none" is already used in practice, which returns no > access token. It was accepted by the designated experts and registered in > the IANA OAuth Authorization Endpoint Response Types registry at > http://www.iana.org/assignments/oauth-parameters/oauth-parameters.xml#endpoint. > The registered "id_token" response type also returns no access token. > > > > So I think the question of whether response types that result in no access > token being returned are acceptable within OAuth 2.0 is already settled, as > a practical matter. Lots of OAuth implementations are already using such > response types. > > > > -- Mike > > > > *From:* OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Phil Hunt > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:09 AM > *To:* Nat Sakimura > *Cc:* <oauth@ietf.org> > *Subject:* Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for > draft-hunt-oauth-v2-user-a4c-05.txt > > > > Yes. This is why it has to be discussed in the IETF. > > > > Phil > > > > @independentid > > www.independentid.com > > phil.hunt@oracle.com > > > > > > > > On Jul 23, 2014, at 9:43 AM, Nat Sakimura <sakimura@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Reading back the RFC6749, I am not sure if there is a good way of > suppressing access token from the response and still be OAuth. It will > break whole bunch of implicit definitions like: > > > > authorization server > The server issuing access tokens to the client after successfully > authenticating the resource owner and obtaining authorization. > > > > After all, OAuth is all about issuing access tokens. > > > > Also, I take back my statement on the grant type in my previous mail. > > > > The definition of grant and grant_type are respectively: > > > > grant > > credential representing the resource owner's authorization > > > > grant_type > > (string representing the) type of grant sent to the token endpoint to > obtain the access token > > > > Thus, the grant sent to the token endpoint in this case is still 'code'. > > > > Response type on the other hand is not so well defined in RFC6749, but it > seems it is representing what is to be returned from the authorization > endpoint. To express what is to be returned from token endpoint, perhaps > defining a new parameter to the token endpoint, which is a parallel to the > response_type to the Authorization Endpoint seems to be a more symmetric > way, though I am not sure at all if that is going to be OAuth any more. One > straw-man is to define a new parameter called response_type to the token > endpoint such as: > > > > response_type > > OPTIONAL. A string representing what is to be returned from the token > endpoint. > > > > Then define the behavior of the endpoint according to the values as the > parallel to the multi-response type spec. > > http://openid.net/specs/oauth-v2-multiple-response-types-1_0.html > > > > Nat > > > > > > > > > > 2014-07-23 7:21 GMT-04:00 Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>: > > The draft is very clear. > > Phil > > > On Jul 23, 2014, at 0:46, Nat Sakimura <sakimura@gmail.com> wrote: > > The new grant type that I was talking about was > > "authorization_code_but_do_not_return_access_nor_refresh_token", so to > speak. > > It does not return anything per se, but an extension can define something > on top of it. > > > > Then, OIDC can define a binding to it so that the binding only returns ID > Token. > > This binding work should be done in OIDF. Should there be such a grant > type, > > it will be an extremely short spec. > > > > At the same time, if any other specification wanted to define > > other type of tokens and have it returned from the token endpoint, > > it can also use this grant type. > > > > If what you want is to define a new grant type that returns ID Token only, > > then, I am with Justin. Since "other response than ID Token" is only > > theoretical, this is a more plausible way forward, I suppose. > > > > Nat > > > > 2014-07-22 14:30 GMT-04:00 Justin Richer <jricher@mit.edu>: > > So the draft would literally turn into: > > "The a4c response type and grant type return an id_token from the token > endpoint with no access token. All parameters and values are defined in > OIDC." > > Seems like the perfect mini extension draft for OIDF to do. > > --Justin > > /sent from my phone/ > > > On Jul 22, 2014 10:29 AM, Nat Sakimura <sakimura@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > What about just defining a new grant type in this WG? > > > > > > 2014-07-22 12:56 GMT-04:00 Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>: > >> > >> That would be nice. However oidc still needs the new grant type in > order to implement the same flow. > >> > >> Phil > >> > >> On Jul 22, 2014, at 11:35, Nat Sakimura <sakimura@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> +1 to Justin. > >>> > >>> > >>> 2014-07-22 9:54 GMT-04:00 Richer, Justin P. <jricher@mitre.org>: > >>>> > >>>> Errors like these make it clear to me that it would make much more > sense to develop this document in the OpenID Foundation. It should be > something that directly references OpenID Connect Core for all of these > terms instead of redefining them. It's doing authentication, which is > fundamentally what OpenID Connect does on top of OAuth, and I don't see a > good argument for doing this work in this working group. > >>>> > >>>> -- Justin > >>>> > >>>> On Jul 22, 2014, at 4:30 AM, Thomas Broyer <t.broyer@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 11:52 PM, Mike Jones < > Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks for your review, Thomas. The "prompt=consent" definition > being missing is an editorial error. It should be: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> consent > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The Authorization Server SHOULD prompt the End-User for consent > before returning information to the Client. If it cannot obtain consent, it > MUST return an error, typically consent_required. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I'll plan to add it in the next draft. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> It looks like the consent_required error needs to be defined too, > and you might have forgotten to also import account_selection_required from > OpenID Connect. > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I agree that there's no difference between a response with multiple > "amr" values that includes "mfa" and one that doesn't. Unless a clear use > case for why "mfa" is needed can be identified, we can delete it in the > next draft. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks. > >>>>> > >>>>> How about "pwd" then? I fully understand that I should return "pwd" > if the user authenticated using a password, but what "the service if a > client secret is used" means in the definition for the "pwd" value? > >>>>> > >>>>> (Nota: I know you're at IETF-90, I'm ready to wait 'til you come > back ;-) ) > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Thomas Broyer > >>>>> /tɔ.ma.bʁwa.je/ <http://xn--nna.ma.xn--bwa-xxb.je/> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> OAuth mailing list > >>>>> OAuth@ietf.org > >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> OAuth mailing list > >>>> OAuth@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Nat Sakimura (=nat) > >>> Chairman, OpenID Foundation > >>> http://nat.sakimura.org/ > >>> @_nat_en > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> OAuth mailing list > >>> OAuth@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Nat Sakimura (=nat) > > Chairman, OpenID Foundation > > http://nat.sakimura.org/ > > @_nat_en > > > > > > -- > Nat Sakimura (=nat) > > Chairman, OpenID Foundation > http://nat.sakimura.org/ > @_nat_en > > > > > > -- > Nat Sakimura (=nat) > > Chairman, OpenID Foundation > http://nat.sakimura.org/ > @_nat_en > > > > > _______________________________________________ > OAuth mailing list > OAuth@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth > > > > > > -- > Thomas Broyer > /tɔ.ma.bʁwa.je/ <http://xn--nna.ma.xn--bwa-xxb.je/> > > _______________________________________________ > OAuth mailing list > OAuth@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth > > > > > > -- > Thomas Broyer > /tɔ.ma.bʁwa.je/ <http://xn--nna.ma.xn--bwa-xxb.je/> > > > _______________________________________________ > OAuth mailing list > OAuth@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth > > > > > > -- > Nat Sakimura (=nat) > > Chairman, OpenID Foundation > http://nat.sakimura.org/ > @_nat_en > > > > _______________________________________________ > > OAuth mailing list > > OAuth@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > OAuth mailing list > OAuth@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth > > > _______________________________________________ > OAuth mailing list > OAuth@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth > >
- [OAUTH-WG] FW: New Version Notification for draft… Mike Jones
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] FW: New Version Notification for d… Thomas Broyer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] FW: New Version Notification for d… Mike Jones
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] FW: New Version Notification for d… Thomas Broyer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Richer, Justin P.
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Nat Sakimura
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Phil Hunt
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Nat Sakimura
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Phil Hunt
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Justin Richer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Nat Sakimura
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Phil Hunt
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Nat Sakimura
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Phil Hunt
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Mike Jones
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Nat Sakimura
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Thomas Broyer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Richer, Justin P.
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Thomas Broyer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Nat Sakimura
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… torsten
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Mike Jones
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… John Bradley
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Mike Jones
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Takahiko Kawasaki
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Nat Sakimura
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Nat Sakimura
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Thomas Broyer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Torsten Lodderstedt
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Nat Sakimura
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Thomas Broyer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Torsten Lodderstedt
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… John Bradley
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Phil Hunt
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… John Bradley
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Anthony Nadalin
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Justin Richer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Nat Sakimura
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Anthony Nadalin
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Mike Jones
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Brian Campbell
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Anthony Nadalin
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Richer, Justin P.
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Brian Campbell
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… John Bradley
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Phil Hunt
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Phil Hunt
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… John Bradley
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… torsten
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Nat Sakimura
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Phil Hunt
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Dale Olds
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Bill Burke
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Phil Hunt
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Justin Richer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Brian Campbell
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Anthony Nadalin
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… John Bradley
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Bill Mills
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Bill Mills
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Nat Sakimura
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Brian Campbell
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Anthony Nadalin
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Sergey Beryozkin
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Justin Richer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Sergey Beryozkin
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Justin Richer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Sergey Beryozkin
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Phil Hunt
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Sergey Beryozkin
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Phil Hunt
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Sergey Beryozkin
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for draft… Sergey Beryozkin