Re: [Ohttp] Discovery

Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com> Fri, 25 June 2021 08:58 UTC

Return-Path: <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>
X-Original-To: ohttp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ohttp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E22163A0B81 for <ohttp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 01:58:29 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.098
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=open-xchange.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qjWgOHkyPxaI for <ohttp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 01:58:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx4.open-xchange.com (alcatraz.open-xchange.com [87.191.39.187]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CD203A0B72 for <ohttp@ietf.org>; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 01:58:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from imap.open-xchange.com (imap.open-xchange.com [10.20.28.82]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx4.open-xchange.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 956736A0E6; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 10:58:22 +0200 (CEST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=open-xchange.com; s=201705; t=1624611502; bh=p+0GqA+UANr53gEa0bVKBNjf6hDuF2V0eemwLt+VXJE=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From; b=uqoQVi1Azz11HXVr6qACmBGkIM6QKK5vfsgfog9rzVTmZgH8yJPKKLdAp217EUqqu wIQszRCVFKKurDUx6vcq6fLA52jMRDtNltvP8FVCGDSRHb3CFGchQxJ/q5vjWQ3K+Y i7kg0dM8DNQS9MXnTcYmeCweb8/pdD/6fOQeRXd0aksSnzExAP+dalwmR8dKLQMTME 8TwWbGdiiDdeGXIPmfffVOKGqLFGiNPljDjCQWA8ic0/kPX6DJe20SbfOCrtjXE7Y1 oVHcEhYmDbVgKITUgQLgSGs9Ck5Gb1Zbb4dhfCtx5ziq21/HL8m76fKnL/J7KUlukh YK7qjX2iR3r0Q==
Received: from appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com ([10.20.28.82]) by imap.open-xchange.com with ESMTPSA id KoJcJK6a1WDhHAAA3c6Kzw (envelope-from <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>); Fri, 25 Jun 2021 10:58:22 +0200
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 10:58:22 +0200
From: Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>
To: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, Andrew Campling <andrew.campling@419.consulting>
Cc: "ohttp@ietf.org" <ohttp@ietf.org>, Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>, Eliot Lear <lear@lear.ch>
Message-ID: <468362609.26110.1624611502535@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com>
In-Reply-To: <434C5683-4292-4354-B000-42C1EFFB026D@mnot.net>
References: <D8268CF8-94DA-4E91-9286-4E45B8E26CB6@mnot.net> <c57ed5b0-c17a-0bca-f42a-dafaa1725792@lear.ch> <1F7246CE-589A-4B34-B514-AFA0F640A384@mnot.net> <238476f4-6bf9-4124-8146-e8c051b1b25f@www.fastmail.com> <f1308d19-085d-dadf-df69-da6f8b1b5171@lear.ch> <85F35B48-DAB9-4429-9538-625E03262CDE@mnot.net> <LO2P265MB0399E24FF16C8A459E70EC0BC2069@LO2P265MB0399.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <434C5683-4292-4354-B000-42C1EFFB026D@mnot.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
Importance: Normal
X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.5-Rev14
X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite
Autocrypt: addr=vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFhFR+UBCACfoywFKBRfzasiiR9/6dwY36eLePXcdScumDMR8qoXvRS55QYDjp5bs+yMq41qWV9 xp/cqryY9jnvHbeF3TsE5yEazpD1dleRbkpElUBpPwXqkrSP8uXO9KkS9KoX6gdml6M4L+F82WpqYC1 uTzOE6HPmhmQ4cGSgoia2jolxAhRpzoYN99/BwpvoZeTSLP5K6yPlMPYkMev/uZlAkMMhelli9IN6yA yxcC0AeHSnOAcNKUr13yXyMlTyi1cdMJ4sk88zIbefxwg3PAtYjkz3wgvP96cNVwAgSt4+j/ZuVaENP pgVuM512m051j9SlspWDHtzrci5pBKKFsibnTelrABEBAAG0NUJlcnRvbGEsIFZpdHRvcmlvIDx2aXR 0b3Jpby5iZXJ0b2xhQG9wZW4teGNoYW5nZS5jb20+iQFABBMBAgAqBAsJCAcGFQoJCAsCBRYCAwEAAp 4BAhsDBYkSzAMABQMAAAAABYJYRUflAAoJEIU2cHmzj8qNaG0H/ROY+suCP86hoN+9RIV66Ej8b3sb8 UgwFJOJMupZfeb9yTIJwE4VQT5lTt146CcJJ5jvxD6FZn1Htw9y4/45pPAF7xLE066jg3OqRvzeWRZ3 IDUfJJIiM5YGk1xWxDqppSwhnKcMOuI72iioWxX0nGQrWxpnWJsjt08IEEwuYucDkul1PHsrLJbTd58 fiMKLVwag+IE1SPHOwkPF6arZQZIfB5ThtOZV+36Jn8Hok9XfeXWBVyPkiWCQYVX39QsIbr0JNR9kQy 4g2ZFexOcTe8Jo12jPRL7V8OqStdDes3cje9lWFLnX05nrfLuE0l0JKWEg8akN+McFXc+oV68h7nu5A Q0EWEVH5QEIAIDKanNBe1uRfk8AjLirflZO291VNkOAeUu+dIhecGnZeQW6htlDinlYOnXhtsY1mK9W PUu+xshDq7lXn2G0LxldYwyJYZaJtDgIKqVqwxfA34Lj27oqPuXwcvGhdCgt0SW/YcalRdAi0/AzUCu 5GSaj2kaGUSnBYYUP4szGJXjaK2psP5toQSCtx2pfSXQ6MaqPK9Zzy+D5xc6VWQRp/iRImodAcPf8fg JJvRyJ8Jla3lKWyvBBzJDg6MOf6Fts78bJSt23X0uPp93g7GgbYkuRMnFI4RGoTVkxjD/HBEJ0CNg22 hoHJondhmKnZVrHEluFuSnW0wBEIYomcPSPB+cAEQEAAYkBMQQYAQIAGwUCWEVH5QIbDAQLCQgHBhUK CQgLAgUJEswDAAAKCRCFNnB5s4/KjdO8B/wNpvWtOpLdotR/Xh4fu08Fd63nnNfbIGIETWsVi0Sbr8i E5duuGaaWIcMmUvgKe/BM0Fpj9X01Zjm90uoPrlVVuQWrf+vFlbalUYVZr51gl5UyUFHk+iAZCAA0WB rsmACKvuV1P7GuiX3UV9b59T9taYJxN3dNFuftrEuvsqHimFtlekUjUwoCekTJdncFusBhwz2OrKhHr WWrEsXkfh0+pURWYAlKlTxvXuI7gAfHEQM+6OnrWvXYtlhd0M1sBPnCjbyG63Qws7Rek9bEWKtH6dA6 dmT2FQT+g1S9Mdf0WkPTQNX0x24dm8IoHuD3KYwX7Svx43Xa17aZnXqUjtj1
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ohttp/kFtWBzzGnSHIIDJEN9bmF8eg8R8>
Subject: Re: [Ohttp] Discovery
X-BeenThere: ohttp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Oblivious HTTP <ohttp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ohttp>, <mailto:ohttp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ohttp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ohttp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ohttp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ohttp>, <mailto:ohttp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 08:58:30 -0000


> Il 25/06/2021 10:24 Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> ha scritto:
> 
> Yes - but there's a difference between doing that work and achieving certainty that there aren't any substantial negative effects on operations.

Indeed, innovation often disrupts pre-existing operations and even entire industries, and this in itself is not a good reason to stop it (some would say it is actually a good reason not to stop it). However, the point is whether the change in its entirety will lead the Internet to a state which is better or worse than the current one, especially when judged from the viewpoint of the end-users. If something benefits one industry, damages another, but makes things better for end-users, let's bring it forth. If however the change benefits the industry but damages many of the end-users, then it is not in line with the IETF's declared priority of stakeholders.

Then, the question is who would make that evaluation, as it clearly requires non-technical input from non-technical stakeholders. While I concur that this is a more general discussion that cannot be addressed as part of the chartering of a specific WG, it's also true that it cannot be deferred forever because it is too complex to discuss it here and now.

-- 
Vittorio Bertola | Head of Policy & Innovation, Open-Xchange
vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com 
Office @ Via Treviso 12, 10144 Torino, Italy