Re: [Rfced-future] Issue 143: RSAB mailing list archives

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Fri, 07 January 2022 20:06 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: rfced-future@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rfced-future@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51AB83A1389 for <rfced-future@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 7 Jan 2022 12:06:57 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.812
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.812 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.714, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HwqOd6zuGsHN for <rfced-future@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 7 Jan 2022 12:06:53 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pj1-x1036.google.com (mail-pj1-x1036.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1036]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CDF93A1390 for <rfced-future@iab.org>; Fri, 7 Jan 2022 12:06:53 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pj1-x1036.google.com with SMTP id b1-20020a17090a990100b001b14bd47532so7429826pjp.0 for <rfced-future@iab.org>; Fri, 07 Jan 2022 12:06:53 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=up1mjytHMkI7VPlPKf+z4N4CEE8m5xzssOb8r2NQumA=; b=eK4gvxKKzcixEpykMN7ZFLkvHz8c6XrvDW3jpTqYkftiS/s0Xf5Dm7j4UaKDPAIMqh RN/EywSWaT/wc+OOFknZx4PMv4jtVP9jjJ/hqNOBL1I+bHdlDf6HTO9FMiZgUmMr2V+b IrGGh9urFbrilWQa5WZiX7P0c3XhJRX32WMbRvgbSWL7lAfSkcpgQbiEXnp5QN8ea3IG JByIPGe5KnIDT2dKIxZFEhl8PVgBypx6Na6OVN93d5L10QPtbc4nPNDxUSaxzxZMCml9 I8Hhs4SIL2CamqCnHvOQFsaiI+BsYBQvRpvUSUIsgu4ARFTt/EZ0F7o47DdG5OVr1zd1 9+bg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=up1mjytHMkI7VPlPKf+z4N4CEE8m5xzssOb8r2NQumA=; b=OVwi63Odr3ML5qvRys0MoOzPKBbl/YfA64sI3GYcFMLTvIhUSoBmutX/LaN4DO160h Qv4axINnuJaOOzhnuAzb9RCepGxb+siORqVl/z7+rH40yVTNpD5bG8h5Dyk22LDK4ypy r3RU486w2PyzzrtNoyFS9AE+HZ97EZJ5KZAk0BmNoxWYzn8Hf7tDgaGvblJn3QC5e6oE HL4Y/ZRV0YiFDqdPZ6ms3QmXfjg8sK2GALnq6YOmmoDYLxO/kpnPtQwb/ZlPE/n21WWD ehS94yHk7rjDA3zVFtxT47H4yg/Voo2vRDKMdIDYqWvOv8MHPyGr+c/LYk8xXNdazGAP cskQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532tTaKZyWKD9pfp+P2e74mBC1fWtSh8su0kRTnoIjtb4E5Qqcf4 kO3GfD3ssDYszAp80Fg+o+A=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzbkCXjsfuCI7dleCvexVF7Na+Q43DRacLNivMuLWrJ5RzAJ2pdkotGus5Zt0fN74obBue3fw==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:38c6:: with SMTP id nn6mr17718270pjb.26.1641586011483; Fri, 07 Jan 2022 12:06:51 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e003:1071:1701:80b2:5c79:2266:e431? ([2406:e003:1071:1701:80b2:5c79:2266:e431]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g9sm6674873pfc.203.2022.01.07.12.06.49 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 07 Jan 2022 12:06:50 -0800 (PST)
To: Wes Hardaker <hardaker@isi.edu>, Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net>
Cc: "rfced-future@iab.org" <rfced-future@iab.org>, Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im>
References: <3e1fe494-c86b-5181-6afb-128b05fec882@stpeter.im> <48043fa8-eb37-2f97-942c-500492664bb0@gmail.com> <e708572f-b678-f60c-ab84-c48e039926a7@stpeter.im> <95dd0e5a-c5f4-09d1-98b4-327978e21316@gmail.com> <1846FA24-9631-4622-9EE6-B0D4A2B505C3@kuehlewind.net> <CANk3-NCkDCqz2m5X0aLGXKYttZ3U8LK-YppsyHYK6TT0RDYgHw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a2a7fdec-f137-50ea-98a3-b571eeea9487@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2022 09:06:46 +1300
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CANk3-NCkDCqz2m5X0aLGXKYttZ3U8LK-YppsyHYK6TT0RDYgHw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rfced-future/TVeAoHsFjfnBFQNb_H3usZdlG-k>
Subject: Re: [Rfced-future] Issue 143: RSAB mailing list archives
X-BeenThere: rfced-future@iab.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: RFC Editor Future Development Program <rfced-future.iab.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.iab.org/mailman/options/rfced-future>, <mailto:rfced-future-request@iab.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rfced-future/>
List-Post: <mailto:rfced-future@iab.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rfced-future-request@iab.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/rfced-future>, <mailto:rfced-future-request@iab.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2022 20:06:57 -0000

On 08-Jan-22 06:45, Wes Hardaker wrote:
> 
>     I don’t have a strong opinion but I want to note that is not what we do for the IESG and IAB.
> 
> 
> Notes: the RFC futures group was tasked with developing a replacement for the existing mechanism (RSOC) that had better transparency and accountability.  Public archives offer significantly more transparency, so the group should think about how far to swing the pendulum from 
where the very tightly closed RSOC group was with respect to the decision 
making process that the RSAB will need to conduct.
> 
>     While there is not necessarily  anything secret on those lists, I always thought is makes the work easier because you can just freely send things without e.g. worrying too much about the exact wording. 
> 
> 
> I think in today's internet you must assume that anything you send by mail is archived.  It's just a question of whether or not it's publicly archived or whether you have to ask someone for a copy of it, because almost assuredly someone or multiple someones do have copies.

Indeed. And whatever we write here, there will in the real world be two lists. One called rsab@rfc-editor.org with a public archive and one without a public archive. (The second one might not be a mailman list as such, but whatever we write it *will* exist in some form. I don't think I've ever been in a committee or other team that didn't sometimes communicate "off list". That's just how the world works.)

However, IMHO we can best promote transparency and civil discourse by mandating a public archive in this case.

      Brian