Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-hayes-rmcat-sbd-00.txt
Mirja Kühlewind <mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch> Wed, 22 October 2014 17:44 UTC
Return-Path: <mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch>
X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A58551ACD53 for <rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 22 Oct 2014 10:44:18 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.91
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DKiHLQspAIVx for <rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 22 Oct 2014 10:44:16 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch (smtp.ee.ethz.ch [129.132.2.219]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97BED1A9103 for <rmcat@ietf.org>; Wed, 22 Oct 2014 10:44:16 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8698DD9302; Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:44:14 +0200 (MEST)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new on smtp.ee.ethz.ch
Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.ee.ethz.ch [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id vYDZPeYm4NLb; Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:44:14 +0200 (MEST)
Received: from [82.130.103.143] (nb-10510.ethz.ch [82.130.103.143]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mirjak) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3A33AD9304; Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:44:14 +0200 (MEST)
Message-ID: <5447ECED.4050904@tik.ee.ethz.ch>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:44:13 +0200
From: Mirja Kühlewind <mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.2
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Stefan Holmer <stefan@webrtc.org>, David Hayes <davihay@ifi.uio.no>
References: <20141010173710.1769e033@hayesd-laptop> <CAEdus3+MzXQdDRxO5dT6DaPP-N-W1TMjDz5vmtZ5607jLR4t3Q@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAEdus3+MzXQdDRxO5dT6DaPP-N-W1TMjDz5vmtZ5607jLR4t3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rmcat/3fcHMELhAg1uz_igFfgF1dtASAM
Cc: "rmcat@ietf.org" <rmcat@ietf.org>, Simone Ferlin-Oliveira <ferlin@simula.no>, Michael Welzl Welzl <michawe@ifi.uio.no>
Subject: Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-hayes-rmcat-sbd-00.txt
X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." <rmcat.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rmcat>, <mailto:rmcat-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rmcat/>
List-Post: <mailto:rmcat@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rmcat-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmcat>, <mailto:rmcat-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 17:44:18 -0000
Hi Stefan, asking this because I'm personally curious but also as rmcat chair: Are you planning to implement some kind of coupled congestion control in your system? Mirja On 22.10.2014 16:36, Stefan Holmer wrote: > Nice draft! I have a few comments: > > You're mentioning that skewness would require all delay measurements to be > stored, and therefore you're computing some different metric which is > related to skew. I wonder if it shouldn't be possible to more accurately > estimate the skew from a histogram instead? That way you at least won't > need to store all delay measurements. Might not be worth the trouble if > your metric works well. > > As mentioned by Mirja, it seems a bit error prone to use the max of the OWD > (also, shouldn't it be max_T(OWD)?) when computing the PDV. > > Somewhat related to this, I wonder if you have any plans to test this > algorithm on WiFi? I have seen many cases of WiFi with a lot of contention > and/or interference, where the delay gets skewed not because lack of > bandwidth, but because of lower layer retransmissions or because the access > point was busy serving someone else for a moment. I wonder if that can > cause you to incorrectly detect shared bottlenecks, where in reality there > was only a shared WiFi... Now that I think of it, the WiFi effect should > result in positive skewness, while you're looking for negative skewness, so > you may be ok here. :) > > It would be good to have the diff() operation defined somewhere. Is it the > diff between successive measurements, or the diff between the flows? > > /Stefan > > > On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 5:37 PM, David Hayes <davihay@ifi.uio.no> wrote: > >> Dear All, >> >> We have just submitted of our initial shared bottleneck detection >> draft and will value your comments and suggestions. >> >> Regards, >> >> David >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 08:17:57 -0700 >> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org> >> To: Michael Welzl <michawe@ifi.uio.no>, David Hayes >> <davihay@ifi.uio.no>, Michael Welzl <michawe@ifi.uio.no>, Simone Ferlin >> <ferlin@simula.no>, Simone Ferlin <ferlin@simula.no>, David Hayes >> <davihay@ifi.uio.no> Subject: New Version Notification for >> draft-hayes-rmcat-sbd-00.txt >> >> >> >> A new version of I-D, draft-hayes-rmcat-sbd-00.txt >> has been successfully submitted by David Hayes and posted to the >> IETF repository. >> >> Name: draft-hayes-rmcat-sbd >> Revision: 00 >> Title: Shared Bottleneck Detection for Coupled >> Congestion Control for RTP Media. Document date: 2014-10-10 >> Group: Individual Submission >> Pages: 12 >> URL: >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hayes-rmcat-sbd-00.txt >> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hayes-rmcat-sbd/ >> Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hayes-rmcat-sbd-00 >> >> >> Abstract: >> This document describes a mechanism to detect whether end-to-end data >> flows share a common bottleneck. It relies on summary statistics >> that are calculated by a data receiver based on continuous >> measurements and regularly fed to a grouping algorithm that runs >> wherever the knowledge is needed. This mechanism complements the >> coupled congestion control mechanism in draft-welzl-rmcat-coupled-cc. >> >> >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at >> tools.ietf.org. >> >> The IETF Secretariat >> >> >> >> -- >> >> ------------------------- >> David Hayes >> davihay@ifi.uio.no >> Department of Informatics >> University of Oslo >> >> > -- ------------------------------------------ Dipl.-Ing. Mirja Kühlewind Communication Systems Group Institute TIK, ETH Zürich Gloriastrasse 35, 8092 Zürich, Switzerland Room ETZ G93 phone: +41 44 63 26932 email: mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch ------------------------------------------
- [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-ha… David Hayes
- [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-ha… grenville armitage
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [rmcat] New Version Notification for draft-ha… Michael Welzl
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… Simone Ferlin-Oliveira
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… David Hayes
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… David Hayes
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… Michael Ramalho (mramalho)
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… David hayes
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… Dave Taht
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… Michael Ramalho (mramalho)
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… Stefan Holmer
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… Simone Ferlin-Oliveira
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… Stefan Holmer
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… David hayes
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… Michael Welzl
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… Stefan Holmer
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… Stefan Holmer
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… Stefan Holmer
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… Zaheduzzaman Sarker
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… Varun Singh
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… David Hayes
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… Stefan Holmer
- Re: [rmcat] Fw: New Version Notification for draf… Stefan Holmer