Re: [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of routing protocols
Jon Crowcroft <Jon.Crowcroft@cl.cam.ac.uk> Mon, 19 December 2022 08:34 UTC
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From: Jon Crowcroft <Jon.Crowcroft@cl.cam.ac.uk>
To: Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ca>
cc: Jon Crowcroft <Jon.Crowcroft@cl.cam.ac.uk>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>, "routing-discussion@ietf.org" <routing-discussion@ietf.org>, Matt Mathis <mattmathis=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "tsv-area@ietf.org" <tsv-area@ietf.org>, pim <pim@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of routing protocols
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Comments: In-reply-to Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ca> message dated "Sun, 18 Dec 2022 16:22:29 -0500."
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Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 08:34:01 +0000
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John Ousterhout has been on a mission to fix (TCP) latency in data centers - i personally am unconvined about moving stuff all into NICs - i think it was one of van jacobson's thoughful observations that then you just move the problem to host to NIC latency...and in the meantime, people have done stuff like this: Towards μs tail latency and terabit ethernet: disaggregating the host network stack https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.1145/3544216.3544230 just by being very smart at sofware and understranding where the hardware resources are heading.. indeed, by being cleverer in switches you can do this Re-architecting datacenter networks and stacks for low latency and high performance https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10068163/1/ndp.pdf which is actually being built in at least one product... but that doesn't help in wide area, router-to-router multihop control plane traffic management much, as far as I know (hum - maybe it would - maybe we could ask those folks to a side event and have them think about applicability > Jon Crowcroft <Jon.Crowcroft@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote: > > Yes, additionsally, though, we can learn lessons from data centers > > where there is a whole body ofwork on dealing with many-to-many > > (e.g. apps using map/reduce platforms and similar) that cause > > congestion in ways that might often be analgous to control plane > > traffic between routers of many kinds - this work post dates most > the > > for instance, I think, this recent talk: > https://netdevconf.info/0x16/session.html?keynote-ousterhout > (I haven't watched it, and I couldn't be at netdev this time) > > I think that netdevconf is a good example of connecting IETF/academia and > the > R-parts of BigTech. > > Also there is: > Semantic Address Routing and Hardware - SARAH > SARAH@jiscmail.ac.uk > > > > > <<signature.asc>> >
- Q on the congestion awareness of routing protocols Toerless Eckert
- Re: [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of routin… Greg Shepherd
- Re: Q on the congestion awareness of routing prot… Jon Crowcroft
- Re: Q on the congestion awareness of routing prot… Matt Mathis
- Re: [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of routin… Toerless Eckert
- Re: Q on the congestion awareness of routing prot… Toerless Eckert
- Re: Q on the congestion awareness of routing prot… Toerless Eckert
- Re: Q on the congestion awareness of routing prot… Masataka Ohta
- Re: Q on the congestion awareness of routing prot… Jon Crowcroft
- Re: Q on the congestion awareness of routing prot… Stewart Bryant
- Re: Q on the congestion awareness of routing prot… Jon Crowcroft
- Re: Q on the congestion awareness of routing prot… Masataka Ohta
- Re: Q on the congestion awareness of routing prot… Masataka Ohta
- Re: Q on the congestion awareness of routing prot… Jon Crowcroft
- Re: Q on the congestion awareness of routing prot… Bless, Roland (TM)
- Re: Q on the congestion awareness of routing prot… Carsten Bormann
- Re: Q on the congestion awareness of routing prot… Robert Raszuk
- Re: Q on the congestion awareness of routing prot… Curtis Villamizar
- Re: Q on the congestion awareness of routing prot… Masataka Ohta
- Re: Q on the congestion awareness of routing prot… Bless, Roland (TM)
- Re: [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of routin… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of routin… Dino Farinacci
- Re: Q on the congestion awareness of routing prot… Toerless Eckert
- Re: Q on the congestion awareness of routing prot… Matt Mathis
- RE: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Dirk Trossen
- Re: [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of routin… Jon Crowcroft
- Re: [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of routin… Masataka Ohta
- Re: [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of routin… Michael Welzl
- Re: [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of routin… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Robert Raszuk
- OT and trimmed (was Re: Q on the congestion aware… Curtis Villamizar
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Luigi Iannone
- Re: [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of routin… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of routin… Masataka Ohta
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Masataka Ohta
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Masataka Ohta
- RRG thoughts (was [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestio… Toerless Eckert
- Re: Q on the congestion awareness of routing prot… Toerless Eckert
- Re: RRG thoughts (was [Bier] [pim] Q on the conge… Luigi Iannone
- Re: [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of routin… Toerless Eckert
- Re: RRG thoughts (was [Bier] [pim] Q on the conge… Joel Halpern
- Re: RRG thoughts (was [Bier] [pim] Q on the conge… Dino Farinacci
- Re: RRG thoughts (was [Bier] [pim] Q on the conge… Robert Raszuk
- Re: RRG thoughts (was [Bier] [pim] Q on the conge… Luigi Iannone
- Re: RRG thoughts (was [Bier] [pim] Q on the conge… Jon Crowcroft
- RE: RRG thoughts (was [Bier] [pim] Q on the conge… Adrian Farrel
- Re: RRG thoughts (was [Bier] [pim] Q on the conge… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: RRG thoughts (was [Bier] [pim] Q on the conge… Toerless Eckert
- RE: [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of routin… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: RRG thoughts (was [Bier] [pim] Q on the conge… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: RRG thoughts (was [Bier] [pim] Q on the conge… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of routin… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of routin… Jon Crowcroft
- Re: [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of routin… Michael Richardson
- Re: [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of routin… Jon Crowcroft
- Re: [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of routin… Adamson, Robert B CIV USN NRL (5592) Washington DC (USA)
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Toerless Eckert
- RE: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang