Re: [rtcweb] Meaning of SHOULD support/use interleaving

Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Tue, 28 October 2014 16:27 UTC

Return-Path: <ekr@rtfm.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E691D1A8AE5 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:27:24 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.977
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DLMBxEqgneMb for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:27:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wi0-f181.google.com (mail-wi0-f181.google.com [209.85.212.181]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F35AC1A8AE2 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:26:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-wi0-f181.google.com with SMTP id n3so2151276wiv.8 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:26:12 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=UtvYRVP5SyI35B9ikfWiulXCQlZpqlwFI4hY/hUznWg=; b=aoSn8gDg2jLD4MI24xcn6YKo/z088IYJBY0eJDb3RfLCl+3lVi/iWiwyGSCd5z+CQr 30mrdM2jEZW7XLEk/KNSATALiA2zgESfImn8t4ZpgyZ/xGoJvFHGngAW5AcMtEOTAkJp XNfxbFdASs0Y4dH8q5Mbo+Wr5HUGCkzyeoMYaSM8oxdm38fa+RqS+iAkrE1H7moznOkv sS4KLrLUYij3SReNBSie2ykq5s0FyEW4rw7KIHp3CeVVP+4p4wDyPp7SRTPj22X2VOTl jGB7ycLzimXHIsfQCNTe0cWw9AawCzV+L/Fxf4+GnIaEv1SkzqogzCpZ/MHpulETH4GO U5Ag==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnwT0X7Tvy6FCECeYhm2EHCVHzKiDKCnxEnWuU4lLerQAG8slatPRlNOPP/0DedX+i6hLPW
X-Received: by 10.181.13.20 with SMTP id eu20mr29101028wid.36.1414513572342; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:26:12 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.216.49.198 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:25:32 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D4D1044@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se>
References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D4CCEEF@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <EA00639E-2008-4BD2-88F2-27AAEE9DA213@lurchi.franken.de> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D4CD241@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <544E8D92.8010401@alvestrand.no> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D4CE9DA@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <5B74C903-7C9A-4D74-B5CC-D0643A377935@lurchi.franken.de> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D4CEBAB@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <9A1C16CE-1423-448B-943F-33B3068156F3@lurchi.franken.de> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D4D0CE8@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <CD364160-0A33-4E74-B114-04BDA33E40D3@lurchi.franken.de> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D4D1044@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se>
From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:25:32 -0700
Message-ID: <CABcZeBOuiTk8Ont314aenemUVPxkiLk7jScpZ3DR-90TuzN4NQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f46d043bdff80285b105067e1b3d"
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/GxKewwwrbDBSGuP0Wy-5hUU4_Lk
Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Meaning of SHOULD support/use interleaving
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 16:27:25 -0000

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:46 AM, Christer Holmberg <
christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> >>> I am not suggesting different flavors - I am suggesting to make the
> usage of
> >>> interleaving optional. Other SCTP features are also optional
> (including reliability, ordering etc).
> >>>
> >>> Where are these things optional? According to
> >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-channel-12#section
> >>> -6.1 an implementation MUST implement PR-SCTP and the support of the
> >>> FORWARD-TSN chunk will be negotiated similar to the NDATA chunk. I
> don't see a difference, especially not if we move to MUST support NDATA.
> >>
> >> For example, section 6.1 says:
> >>
> >>      "The partial reliability extension defined in [RFC3758] MUST be
> supported."
> >>
> >> However, in CLUE we say that a CLUE entity MUST NOT *use* the
> extension, as all CLUE messages are required to be sent reliably.
> >
> > That is OK. However, support for PR-SCTP MUST be there and it will be
> negotiated. You just never send a message with partial reliability. At
> least this is my understanding...
>
> So, can the same be done for interleaving? I.e. the support MUST be there,
> but e.g. CLUE entities can choose not to use it?
>
> Note that my issue is not about support, it's about usage :)


What resource is being conserved by not just requiring it?

-Ekr