Re: When the IETF can discuss drafts seriously?

Dick Franks <rwfranks@acm.org> Thu, 21 December 2017 14:14 UTC

Return-Path: <rwfranks@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: rtgwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtgwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9F6E127337; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 06:14:53 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.398
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qL36I0aBiPHs; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 06:14:52 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-wr0-x234.google.com (mail-wr0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E3AC126C2F; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 06:14:52 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-wr0-x234.google.com with SMTP id w68so12843906wrc.10; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 06:14:51 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=+avahMzwPUtJRpkk8OWLEWmuamkWv5iVxYRBT7UNYIA=; b=iQV6b86s+uXM8Hckt5gt/YyvUS6dwx2OKnfq1tJeQTE50WCxcWAGt04d98awkHPn2Q jWOjT5XzKV1xKSmQlXooTIiYNUId8g4tNXMIRCvr8yJY8vGoSU4o3LSzkaL8+JBcc2Zq 9y3H0hQbMn5BLHGQuWioBzLNk430aYIzSWfwYsKdFUSSNLhhawQKphxN7LM3Vockdnvp Xw2v8CRX4Eadk5mplOIY4tges//8F6qzVkub73fMmPB9durUvgDzAdzb3Q3EyDsXHaaf BClsM1KQnt2sY9qK1erq4fYeXzbIcqE6qiSmdzQWEKkRnxj7xTlTJ2hJwYEZkveNbUjC e5fA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+avahMzwPUtJRpkk8OWLEWmuamkWv5iVxYRBT7UNYIA=; b=JDxr77rKplkUU4tcuPJEpfrvLaALVqagFPD3xKHRHzmHivzO5NxUdaeCijxO0lIWfL ArX2m2kSxQ98i5UKtcFQ14GYwd4kzrSzNB4CxkM9AqW9D35D3r4vG0wjkc0cE2nLvPwj bjPE8QWig+uNXCcFQwZbZGxOkxaMF85yfCxBcx8QpIzxPNK6Y48ifXQm51UBddiK3g/k c+gxMSzlBMDUtOPW31r3gq0K24HFvS7E/I5R0ZImasM1VxN2k+G6du1bWLlkOyBZ6yaD nwj+hbLutaDP/jtmq5iXNPZxm53shqI85HWk9Wt4u6rdfx8kK2w+9TqbelMO8FGJi4OR QXKw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mIMIMgQ7yRkfD93nzb+O1fnI6T3kNCnjFHc/XaZegsYUBKZ+Rns zi+TxsGAMUcsdaysmsiRJdtMeXuAODoiuu7XFX8=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBot/2yi4cFRoXmbC4euU9Z0FARDznj3W9FzCUAWj+9MbhPqx99Tdbc3BiPYtDrKVYfQGfdJNZ/aIIba6TApmAZw=
X-Received: by 10.223.184.18 with SMTP id h18mr11404838wrf.11.1513865690640; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 06:14:50 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: rwfranks@gmail.com
Received: by 10.223.135.249 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 06:14:09 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <AM5P190MB0434A92C65FE8657EB533315AE0D0@AM5P190MB0434.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <AM4PR0401MB2241817BD0EEEE79B32C8CD2BD0F0@AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com> <51b495e6-ee1d-4224-6c7c-dec0f8248cc9@cisco.com> <D6601576.27F3B%christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> <BBF5DDFE515C3946BC18D733B20DAD233AA98562@XMB122CNC.rim.net> <AM4PR0401MB22414952845433B8D59CCC90BD0C0@AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com> <BBF5DDFE515C3946BC18D733B20DAD233AA98825@XMB122CNC.rim.net> <60324BD8-E91D-49C7-9AE6-C6E22C836AC8@fugue.com> <AM5P190MB0434A92C65FE8657EB533315AE0D0@AM5P190MB0434.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
From: Dick Franks <rwfranks@acm.org>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 14:14:09 +0000
X-Google-Sender-Auth: T5u4rd-4xPdiMXUamBGWwIOsJXs
Message-ID: <CAKW6Ri4oBtE7CsBNuDkd=pCM-ztHfo5xdGNG300e=RiJ2fODOg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: When the IETF can discuss drafts seriously?
To: Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@outlook.com>
Cc: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, ietf <ietf@ietf.org>, rtgwg <rtgwg@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045fa578ba76d00560da52d3"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtgwg/68UXOozKC_0dS4HtMoQh8s-xNHo>
X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Routing Area Working Group <rtgwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtgwg>, <mailto:rtgwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rtgwg/>
List-Post: <mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtgwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg>, <mailto:rtgwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 14:14:54 -0000

On 21 December 2017 at 09:21, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@outlook.com>
wrote:

> > Another very valuable thing to do is just sit and listen to people talk
> about problems in the IETF, and then see if you can come up with a small,
> narrowly scoped proposal that will help to solve one of those problems.
>  Or even an insight you can share on the mailing list that helps to better
> focus the discussion.
>
> As I said before, I don't mind to join a discussion if the topic is
> interesting and its information is clear, but I was tired of asking for
> technical discussion so it will take the drafts forward.
>


Stephane was right. You just do not listen.

You have already been offered a mountain of good quality advice, based on
hundreds of man-years of experience, but choose to remain as self-centred
as ever.

However, one important personal consideration has not yet been addressed.

You should be aware that all IETF mailing list traffic is archived and
publicly accessible. This record of your character and behaviour toward
others is much more revealing than anything achievable in a recruitment
interview.  This could inflict serious damage on your career prospects.