Re: [Sip] Draft agenda, SIP at IETF 72

["DRAGE, Keith \(Keith\)" <[e-mail]>]

THERE ARE NOT INTENDED TO BE ANY PRESENTATIONS IN THE SIP AGENDA.
 
These are the slots we think we need to address the issues that have surfaced on the list, and where we believed face to face time would be beneficial, or where we as chairs need guidance on how to progress an item. In that respect the inclusion or exclusion of items is certainly discussable.
 
For all you agenda replanners out there, here are some issues to take into account.
 
1)    We have already missed one significant issue off the agenda which was the identity issue. Large number of drafts, large number of posts to the mailing list - that outqualifies most of the other items on the SIP WG list and in every other RAI WG without exception. If we gain an hour on agenda planning, then that item goes back in, or we fall back on our current plan of trying to have some discussion outside the main meeting.
 
2)    The agenda bashing time is also for 1 slide questions on WG drafts outside the main agenda. For example, I believe we have to point out the current status change of domain certs and make sure everyone is OK with that. Also pointing out that 10 minutes is excessive hurts - there are other RAI groups that take longer than this on this item.
 
3)    3 of the items are documents that have recently, or are currently, in WGLC. We want to get these out of the door with completion of open issues raised. If there are WGLC comments that would benefit from face to face time in addition to list discussion to complete those documents, then those documents will get agenda time. invfix already has one issue to raise. Am still waiting for editor feedback on body-handling. record-route-fix is still in WGLC with only one set of comments made so far - where are your comments?
 
4)    SIP is one of the larger groups and therefore the mic queues are longer. If we have scheduled the right question it takes at least 10 minutes for all the people at the mic queue to have one go at making their point, and some of you want more than one go. Attempts at asking people to be more concise don't improve the situation. Therefore one appropriate question at the face-to-face meeting takes 10 minutes to discuss.
 
5)    We didn't schedule the clash with DRINKS. We suffer from the problem that there are too many RAI groups, and some of them ask for more time than they need (and some of them get their requests in late!). People propose sets of groups that can meet in parallel, but seem unable to agree on the split. And then you want core meeting time for BOFs as well. SIP hasn't had time for a navel gazing agenda item for a long long time. It distresses me when SIP has thing it needs to discuss but cannot, and we see other groups scheduling an hour for an agenda item entitled "way forward" or 20 minutes for "remaining direction" without any list discussion or incoming drafts to back it up. I have no intention of asking to cancel the second SIP session. We'll move stuff from one session to the other if it is possible and the move helps people, but that is it.
 
regards
 
Keith


________________________________

	From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Hisham Khartabil
	Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 12:27 AM
	To: Robert Sparks
	Cc: SIP IETF; Cullen Jennings; Dean Willis
	Subject: Re: [Sip] Draft agenda, SIP at IETF 72
	
	
	Having looked at the agenda, I think we can do without the 2nd session. What I mean is that we can remove presentations from the 1st session that we don't think need face time (Robert pointed at a couple) and move the ones requiring face time from the 2nd session to the 1st.
	 
	I don't think we need 10 mins to bash the agenda. I also don't think we need 10mins for draft-ietf-sip-saml-04. We can limit face time to drafts that have open issues to discuss that were not resolveable on the list.
	 
	Thanks,
	Hisham
	 
	 
	On 17/07/2008, Robert Sparks <[e-mail]> wrote: 

		This is a really good place to start bashing from. Thanks for going through the pain it takes to put this together.
		
		Everyone should take note that the second session has a RAI conflict
		(with DRINKS) and think through where to put conversations so that
		we minimize the pain caused by the necessary split of people.
		
		I think I'd rather see the large, architectural questions,
		INFO and Identity, moved into the conflict free spot and
		put topics with a smaller constituency into the second session.
		
		I also think people across the working group should chime in with what they think
		the three most important _DRAFTS_ to talk about, in person, at this meeting are.
		I strongly suspect there's a surprise or two that will come out of that.
		
		I'll throw my own list in later (because I want to think awhile about what's _not_
		in the proposed agenda), but to help tune things early:
		
		I do want to talk about 199.
		
		I don't see why we should spend face time on sip-keep at this point.
		
		I think we can get away without face time on record-route fix.
		(its unlikely at this late stage that we'll find a crisis to work through there).
		
		I have received very little feedback on invfix, and I don't think
		   we need to spend any in-meeting time on the essential
		   corrections process itself. So, I propose we take that entire
		   topic to the list and/or hallways. I'll take on pushing a few
		   key folks to review the big recent changes to invfix and
		   speak up that they've done so before we get to the meetings.
		
		Everybody else: If you hold the token on any of the other drafts and feel you can
		 resolve any issues you currently have the same way, I strongly urge
		 you to propose something similar for your time.
		
		
		RjS 
		
		
		
		
		On Jul 16, 2008, at 10:45 AM, Dean Willis wrote:
		
		


			This is the draft agenda for the SIP meeting at IETF 72 in Dublin.
			
			• Note that this agenda is subject to change based on list conversations
			
			• Note that we're still trying to work out how to have the "Identity" discussion
			
			Pretty HTML is at:
			http://www.softarmor.com/mediawiki/index.php/SIP_Agenda_IETF_72
			
			Text follows
			
			-----------------
			
			Agenda for SIP at IETF 72, Primary Session, Tuesday July 29, 2008, 1300-1500, Convention 3
			
			Agenda Bash
			Chairs
			10
			
			Using SAML for SIP
			Chairs
			draft-ietf-sip-saml-04
			10
			
			Identify requirements for test matrix to move SIP to Draft Standard
			Robert Sparks
			draft-sparks-sip-steps-to-draft-00
			20
			
			Essential corrections to RFC 3261 (1st batch)
			Robert Sparks
			draft-sparks-sip-invfix-02
			15
			
			Delivery of Request URI and Parameters to UAS Through Proxy
			Speaker TBD
			draft-rosenberg-sip-ua-loose-route-02
			draft-holmberg-sip-target-uri-delivery-01
			25
			
			
			Mechanisms for UA Initiated Privacy
			Mayumi Munakata
			draft-ietf-sip-ua-privacy-02
			15
			
			MIME body handling in SIP
			Gonzalo Camarillo
			draft-ietf-sip-body-handling-02
			15
			
			Guidelines for double route recording
			Thomas Froment
			draft-ietf-sip-record-route-fix-03
			Time TBD
			
			Keepalive Without Outbound
			Christer Holmberg
			draft-holmberg-sip-keep-01
			10
			
			
			Agenda for SIP at IETF 72, Primary Session, Thursday July 31, 2008, 1510-1610, Convention 3
			
			Agenda Bash
			Chairs
			5
			
			Termination of early dialog prior to final response
			Christer Holmberg
			draft-ietf-sip-199-00
			20
			
			INFO
			Speaker TBD
			draft-burger-sip-info-02
			draft-kaplan-sip-info-events-01
			draft-rosenberg-sip-info-litmus-01
			draft-kaplan-sipping-dtmf-package-00
			draft-willis-sip-infopackage-00
			35
			
			
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		_______________________________________________
		Sip mailing list  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
		This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
		Use [e-mail] for questions on current sip
		Use [e-mail] for new developments on the application of sip
		

_______________________________________________
Sip mailing list  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
Use [e-mail] for questions on current sip
Use [e-mail] for new developments on the application of sip