Re: [Terminology] Guidance for NIST Staff on Using Inclusive Language in Documentary Standards (NISTIR 8366)

Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> Sun, 02 May 2021 16:36 UTC

Return-Path: <hallam@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: terminology@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: terminology@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90F963A1127 for <terminology@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 2 May 2021 09:36:03 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.4
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WKbNKeZgyDRA for <terminology@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 2 May 2021 09:35:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-yb1-f170.google.com (mail-yb1-f170.google.com [209.85.219.170]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 888D53A1125 for <terminology@ietf.org>; Sun, 2 May 2021 09:35:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-yb1-f170.google.com with SMTP id z1so4494895ybf.6 for <terminology@ietf.org>; Sun, 02 May 2021 09:35:58 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DLGUFAhjcZ03heLorN2laW//GXO911Nf+a80T9Awbqs=; b=ARSJO2scHA/D7E57PyLirgPetSpvc2Yrr9XDagJnNNnQbyA2oSicPcni/pESW0de6g kAGs2S9i30jR4KuxnamQkXxgQECeyMh1qOgSaVzeMyL+VMbj/C4AiJ59o8iouwMTer7k mAVtfSN0Fgn31gEpecZKQr6uXjNd8NCCblBcY8lYnT6dA9tMrw6TKS5FcLO2OQ74Kf5i oS2sA6zgVG+k0jnnmMdqIVJDVTvbOTCQUy4oRjIXjAH8GsG0UN8KSL6vN6r35xyx5oXs B8q+bPo94Jw9/NGydi4jqNoP98AAY29WPna8g9avbaIqqDjlj1RRl6qwg2dY9Mvvm/7e YiDA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532W/1EHfBkDQWSv1pyOzN6c1yd9w8l/EdVJ7kOT2phVE23xDYY2 DwvKdPKj74wSnF5E74Hlfq1X6HJvZcR0L1/H91ZlvyyfaJ0=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyBhRcGMiL+8p4M456W6xhqYUb07d/FvDqi/n9c0QCTmyNV5krM70F1R6o3FEJOG9X4/K0XgSsYHyKecMyH/Ns=
X-Received: by 2002:a5b:48c:: with SMTP id n12mr22627209ybp.273.1619973356979; Sun, 02 May 2021 09:35:56 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <20210429212542.BAEAD5FD25D@ary.qy> <A780D3C9-4E59-4D43-9413-24A6AA29D6C4@cisco.com> <75593ddc-4c63-3f45-bf86-1d59af57b308@joelhalpern.com>
In-Reply-To: <75593ddc-4c63-3f45-bf86-1d59af57b308@joelhalpern.com>
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
Date: Sun, 02 May 2021 12:35:45 -0400
Message-ID: <CAMm+Lwj4tjjupibzKP4nEd8bDFzqt4-eUU6vx=E7qPa9ozMFrg@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Cc: terminology@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007d0e3b05c15b7006"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/terminology/M0JmY1KsvjE5aubt4qz63G2kzX0>
Subject: Re: [Terminology] Guidance for NIST Staff on Using Inclusive Language in Documentary Standards (NISTIR 8366)
X-BeenThere: terminology@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Effective Terminology in IETF Documents <terminology.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/terminology>, <mailto:terminology-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/terminology/>
List-Post: <mailto:terminology@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:terminology-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/terminology>, <mailto:terminology-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 May 2021 16:36:04 -0000

I am fine with pointing to a specific iteration of the NIST work.

I am opposed to a live reference since this is a highly political issue in
the US and we might not agree with future versions.

On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 8:54 AM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:

> I can live with pointing to the NIST work.
> I hope that we can find ways to address a number of the other issues
> that have been mentioned in this discussion.
>
> Yours,
> Joel
>
> On 4/30/2021 4:59 AM, Eliot Lear wrote:
> > +1.
> >
> > Eliot
> >
> >> On 29 Apr 2021, at 23:25, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> It appears that Christian Huitema  <huitema@huitema.net> said:
> >>>> Yes. The IESG could suggest to the RFC Editor team to add an
> informative
> >>>> reference to the NIST document to the style guide, and remind the IETF
> >>>> that Internet-Drafts should aim to adhere to the RFC style guide,
> >>>> and we're done.
> >>>>
> >>>> (Clearly NIST is not international in scope, and the IETF is, but
> since
> >>>> our shared working language is more or less American English, it seems
> >>>> reasonable.)
> >>>
> >>> +1. One of the best ways to make progress quickly.
> >>
> >> Sounds good to me.
> >>
> >> The IETF has all sorts of problems with our long-standing culture of,
> ah, lack of consideration.
> >> Terminology is about 1% of the problem so if this lets us get it out of
> the way so we can think about
> >> working on the other 99%, all the better.
> >>
> >> R's,
> >> John
> >>
> >> --
> >> Terminology mailing list
> >> Terminology@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/terminology
> >
> >
>
> --
> Terminology mailing list
> Terminology@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/terminology
>