Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, timing attacks in general, and what we can do in TLS
Andrei Popov <Andrei.Popov@microsoft.com> Fri, 15 December 2017 18:03 UTC
Return-Path: <Andrei.Popov@microsoft.com>
X-Original-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D5B91273B1 for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 10:03:51 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.801
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.801 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=microsoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZNhzXrrmJo8n for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 10:03:49 -0800 (PST)
Received: from NAM02-CY1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-cys01nam02on0099.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.37.99]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E9B9126CC7 for <tls@ietf.org>; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 10:03:49 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=HnBRHlm8ZDTFVQS11kVQkYG9gQtmUfmi6v+gHJEaitc=; b=SmRJOBfzAlhI8YnZy+9WgWfAO2PQrWnf+O8McxZv5hK/ctcrJCcAxDgUgjST2MmzoZaT9hcJZMnHzGrjsp6WVBVMeHrrTsKUHLrYJFfckm4QSltbXndjvyhql51JaKkuHepmYu42i9FyKROuAYVBBOdv0XrZXGsxU6WDcrKjMmc=
Received: from MWHPR21MB0189.namprd21.prod.outlook.com (10.173.52.135) by MWHPR21MB0189.namprd21.prod.outlook.com (10.173.52.135) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.345.2; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 18:03:47 +0000
Received: from MWHPR21MB0189.namprd21.prod.outlook.com ([10.173.52.135]) by MWHPR21MB0189.namprd21.prod.outlook.com ([10.173.52.135]) with mapi id 15.20.0345.002; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 18:03:47 +0000
From: Andrei Popov <Andrei.Popov@microsoft.com>
To: "ilariliusvaara@welho.com" <ilariliusvaara@welho.com>
CC: Colm MacCárthaigh <colm@allcosts.net>, "tls@ietf.org" <tls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, timing attacks in general, and what we can do in TLS
Thread-Index: AQHTdSqavAlrna8BzEyYxpCWE2aK26NDc+uAgAAd44CAAARHAIAAATeAgADhAoCAAAcvAIAAL3IAgAAEuuA=
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 18:03:46 +0000
Message-ID: <MWHPR21MB01890D006DB0A7B525FA896E8C0B0@MWHPR21MB0189.namprd21.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAAF6GDeeo2xjv1Xu7SFXVZ_zM=XUVJHT=eqH4_-G3+4UHsfvgg@mail.gmail.com> <CACsn0cmMbbT1iAfmxnXHe00dNiqBMyoNkk7e2CyTKWrcdRTtcQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAAF6GDf+GxToBAN83O3NtLO4zJ-8Qax8KjMCGhXv_EhY+NDsKg@mail.gmail.com> <20171215020116.04f9ae15@pc1> <CAAF6GDe79w9XH1GrGvvR-+=uEKfi6GczacUX3Jhy0dL_zW67-Q@mail.gmail.com> <20171215143057.GA17121@LK-Perkele-VII> <MWHPR21MB01897F29048C1B2AB66EA7488C0B0@MWHPR21MB0189.namprd21.prod.outlook.com> <20171215174628.GA17601@LK-Perkele-VII>
In-Reply-To: <20171215174628.GA17601@LK-Perkele-VII>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [2001:4898:80e8:5::4ca]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; MWHPR21MB0189; 6:/atbhfHlaXXtiiYJIJMHdrFwRlEAuhEBIMJxGw++XIrVpk0kV7OCP/ZrrLSUMYaMCoXRHqrPIamNt2lDuh3jFTesASsvFUrodvqPGpoCfksdZty00/tBBPEsT2+a2+dSjgSzP4lutysQz3WJ65UyNsKSAlp95M7cGIkD6X8uh0e06pi5gA4BwMXfHBPaqr8jTGU0AJa55yio5Ozu35/LHb7jZ9mKV1cI2Pjnr8v+7wheubR3EScbdUf3LNfALyHyach9QZRmN1DfjqB6jmfynyviSD1RKVx9WfEBMvARxsnYX8H6SuIa567ETRl8ZAzkhpQPmzPVieVF8FevfIbTCllRQeAFFHr230hTZAIz0es=; 5:pa4P6ZcKw/cUTVIP6usHtRAK+4EB5KsAoJDqFW9hu+PQKRAjaO8yAmWgllIUubLyKIjf/9H+n7QZUjlm4xNYkh97xPU5ZaNQ0C88xDoFdFMzzdNXMQeZldD2jia8aE/mIOaozL8x4zwVdAr+GngnfD1zbp2dX27zcb6zkODu8xI=; 24:ujkdmZkdq33MXIHON68aHnqpu3Ny9bSRhUG7HXBtusf5icvuR5L1yyPQ62HF3QBCPNOE2mQE+ENMJbCneFsqdETyoM30Vn3iS7R3aN6xwxk=; 7:rp5ekSf+jO1EpnUSSkRxTBYzLNo67/S5qKMBuGbIFm1k4c5vQZZTqv/XNr2FAERreIJWRDFEplEZkLSGDwdHbacF2HYh9pLhvYRXIGheTInAX96fzb2HfovQ825PvZA7n15mSdGzE+jWh1+7gEBknVNaZSwk/s9LkhfJS24pCtZGPJn9Kb3hUhpsCFY7Ko21XUgQ61fQ57X/O5o3t1ON1+heonWMgub07mWs6UEDGSlezVJVDqDENRCrSOvMMfBL
x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SSOS;
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 0e13c569-3ace-42cd-4dcb-08d543e63008
x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant
x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(5600026)(4604075)(4534020)(4602075)(4627115)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(48565401081)(2017052603307); SRVR:MWHPR21MB0189;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR21MB0189:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <MWHPR21MB018928463A6D0AB9E40437A68C0B0@MWHPR21MB0189.namprd21.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(89211679590171)(189930954265078)(219752817060721);
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(61425038)(6040450)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(3002001)(3231023)(10201501046)(93006095)(93001095)(6055026)(61426038)(61427038)(6041248)(20161123560025)(20161123555025)(20161123558100)(201703131423075)(201702281528075)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123562025)(20161123564025)(6072148)(201708071742011); SRVR:MWHPR21MB0189; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000803101)(100110400095); SRVR:MWHPR21MB0189;
x-forefront-prvs: 05220145DE
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(346002)(376002)(39860400002)(366004)(396003)(13464003)(199004)(189003)(24454002)(4326008)(6246003)(53936002)(25786009)(33656002)(8990500004)(105586002)(106356001)(2351001)(2900100001)(6116002)(102836003)(10090500001)(5660300001)(2501003)(6916009)(2950100002)(97736004)(3660700001)(3280700002)(229853002)(7696005)(76176011)(10290500003)(2906002)(1730700003)(316002)(14454004)(81166006)(81156014)(575784001)(77096006)(8936002)(54906003)(8676002)(22452003)(99286004)(86362001)(86612001)(6436002)(6506007)(966005)(68736007)(6306002)(53546011)(9686003)(74316002)(7736002)(93886005)(478600001)(305945005)(5640700003)(55016002)(72206003)(29543002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:MWHPR21MB0189; H:MWHPR21MB0189.namprd21.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: microsoft.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Andrei.Popov@microsoft.com;
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0e13c569-3ace-42cd-4dcb-08d543e63008
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 15 Dec 2017 18:03:46.7839 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR21MB0189
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/4wWCEZb7ZAQfc_4PMDCAtzS4CVw>
Subject: Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, timing attacks in general, and what we can do in TLS
X-BeenThere: tls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls/>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 18:03:51 -0000
Correct. -----Original Message----- From: ilariliusvaara@welho.com [mailto:ilariliusvaara@welho.com] Sent: Friday, December 15, 2017 9:46 AM To: Andrei Popov <Andrei.Popov@microsoft.com> Cc: Colm MacCárthaigh <colm@allcosts.net>; tls@ietf.org Subject: Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, timing attacks in general, and what we can do in TLS On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 02:57:33PM +0000, Andrei Popov wrote: > From: TLS [mailto:tls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ilari Liusvaara > > Even nastier dependency: SHA-2. If that breaks, currently both TLS > > 1.2 and 1.3 break. There are no alternatives defined. > > Here's an attempt to define a SHA-2 alternative: > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools > .ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-wconner-blake2sigs-01&data=04%7C01%7CAndrei.P > opov%40microsoft.com%7C30de6e3a48024110441608d543e3c8b7%7C72f988bf86f1 > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636489567969040822%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs > b3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D%7C-1& > sdata=f72MvX0ydw5WvjkvngbY39sai8v9oOc5ZUYZOQI3XmI%3D&reserved=0 Also would need TLS ciphersuite codepoints with alternative handshake hash algorithms. -Ilari
- [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, timing … Colm MacCárthaigh
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Colm MacCárthaigh
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Hanno Böck
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Colm MacCárthaigh
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Andrei Popov
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Hanno Böck
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Andrei Popov
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Andrei Popov
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Tim Hollebeek
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Andrei Popov
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Tim Hollebeek
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Colm MacCárthaigh
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Colm MacCárthaigh
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Colm MacCárthaigh