Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, timing attacks in general, and what we can do in TLS
Hanno Böck <hanno@hboeck.de> Fri, 15 December 2017 16:57 UTC
Return-Path: <hanno@hboeck.de>
X-Original-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 322A8129407 for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 08:57:57 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.601
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4nFXJ3Z13Fgl for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 08:57:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: from zucker2.schokokeks.org (zucker2.schokokeks.org [178.63.68.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 12808129400 for <tls@ietf.org>; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 08:57:53 -0800 (PST)
Received: from pc1 ([2001:2012:127:3e00:b3bf:56a1:a140:6086]) (AUTH: LOGIN hanno-default@schokokeks.org, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3, 256bits, ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by zucker.schokokeks.org with ESMTPSA; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 17:58:01 +0100 id 000000000000001F.000000005A33FF19.000052F1
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 17:57:48 +0100
From: Hanno Böck <hanno@hboeck.de>
To: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos <nmav@redhat.com>, "<tls@ietf.org>" <tls@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <20171215175748.4e54ace8@pc1>
In-Reply-To: <CAHbuEH4CDdQyNdwK=JYLkw_tK+3u=GKeEs0EUt2byoVUwekqCA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAF6GDeeo2xjv1Xu7SFXVZ_zM=XUVJHT=eqH4_-G3+4UHsfvgg@mail.gmail.com> <CACsn0cmMbbT1iAfmxnXHe00dNiqBMyoNkk7e2CyTKWrcdRTtcQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAAF6GDf+GxToBAN83O3NtLO4zJ-8Qax8KjMCGhXv_EhY+NDsKg@mail.gmail.com> <20171215020116.04f9ae15@pc1> <CADh2w8TDJxaruU0M2B1kXsLDzopZBpha0_T1cT8NcMqo0S29Gg@mail.gmail.com> <CAHbuEH4CDdQyNdwK=JYLkw_tK+3u=GKeEs0EUt2byoVUwekqCA@mail.gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.15.1-dirty (GTK+ 2.24.31; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/9VfbHgJ9r-vk-QCJ8UC8kWXwxpw>
Subject: Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, timing attacks in general, and what we can do in TLS
X-BeenThere: tls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls/>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 16:57:57 -0000
On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 11:47:54 -0500 Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > Is there a reason why a migration to PCKS #1 v2.2 doesn't help for TLS > 1.2 and prior? I haven't noticed any discussion on that previously. Is > it just the code base and not those using it being unwilling to > upgrade supporting libraries? It depends... particularly if we talk about encryption or signatures. With Bleichenbacher attacks there are plenty of cross-protocol attack possibilities, this was one of the papers at the TRON workshop: https://www.nds.rub.de/media/nds/veroeffentlichungen/2015/08/21/Tls13QuicAttacks.pdf While I believe we certainly can't get rid of PKCS #1 1.5 signatures any time soon, I think we can get rid of PKCS #1 1.5 encryption (at least on the server side for HTTPS). The number of legit connections is really low. If you run servers please check if you can do that. (I'm also considering writing an RSA-kex-diediedie RFC when I find time for it.) -- Hanno Böck https://hboeck.de/ mail/jabber: hanno@hboeck.de GPG: FE73757FA60E4E21B937579FA5880072BBB51E42
- [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, timing … Colm MacCárthaigh
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Colm MacCárthaigh
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Hanno Böck
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Colm MacCárthaigh
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Andrei Popov
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Hanno Böck
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Andrei Popov
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Andrei Popov
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Tim Hollebeek
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Andrei Popov
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Tim Hollebeek
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Colm MacCárthaigh
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Colm MacCárthaigh
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] A closer look at ROBOT, BB Attacks, tim… Colm MacCárthaigh