Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices for certificate chain order
Viktor Dukhovni <ietf-dane@dukhovni.org> Sat, 09 May 2015 05:34 UTC
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Date: Sat, 09 May 2015 05:34:02 +0000
From: Viktor Dukhovni <ietf-dane@dukhovni.org>
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Subject: Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices for certificate chain order
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On Sat, May 09, 2015 at 12:49:16AM -0400, Dave Garrett wrote: > > It creates new ambiguities, makes bogus, backwards-incompatible > > and interoperability-impairing behaviour appear less objectionable, > > Yep, but it does convert interoperability-impairing behavior into interoperable behavior. On the contrary, the currently required server behaviour is interoperable, and relaxing the rules is likely to reduce that interoperability if more servers violate the rules. The fact that many clients don't enforce the rules is not surprising, there is no Internet protocol police, and the spec does not require clients to enforce the rules. We must read the spec exclusively as a server requirement to order the chain. Client obligations in particular TLS applications may vary from application to application. Browsers may well jump through various hoops, and likely need to do so. Other applications do not. The world-wide-web is not the entire Internet, and browsers are not the only TLS-using applications. For example, Postfix (when configured to validate peer certificates via a set of local trust-anchors) does not tolerate missing intermediate certificates, the trust store it uses for this typically contains only self-signed trust-anchor certs. Yes, I know that the specific change of language is only about certificate order, and does not remove the requirement to send all the requisite certs. And in fact Postfix does tolerate out-of-order intermediates (because OpenSSL does). So my example is but an analogy, and does not *specifically* warrant retaining the order constraint, but other clients may be even more constrained, and that's OK for those particular applications. Nothing in the current server requirement precludes any client accomodations for servers that don't send the requisite chain. When those are appropriate, they can be employed. -- Viktor.
- [TLS] Update spec to match current practices for … Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Ryan Sleevi
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Fabrice Gautier
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Ryan Sleevi
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Geoffrey Keating
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Ryan Sleevi
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Ben Laurie
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Kemp, David P.
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Kemp, David P.
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Geoff Keating
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Ryan Sleevi
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Ryan Sleevi
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Ryan Sleevi
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Ben Laurie
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Ryan Sleevi
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Ryan Sleevi
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Ryan Sleevi
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Update spec to match current practices … Ryan Sleevi