Re: [TLS] chairs - please shutdown wiretapping discussion...

Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Wed, 12 July 2017 16:18 UTC

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To: Kyle Rose <krose@krose.org>
Cc: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, "Polk, Tim (Fed)" <william.polk@nist.gov>, IETF TLS <tls@ietf.org>
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From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
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Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 17:18:48 +0100
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Subject: Re: [TLS] chairs - please shutdown wiretapping discussion...
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On 12/07/17 16:54, Kyle Rose wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie
>> wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> On 12/07/17 16:27, Kyle Rose wrote:
>>> The telco in the POTS case isn't either endpoint. The third-party
>>> surveillance is unknown to those endpoints. Therefore: wiretapping.
>>
>> Same in the wordpress.com or smtp/tls cases already
>> described on list. Therefore: wiretapping.
>>
>> My point was that "collaborating" does not mean not
>> wiretapping. Saying otherwise is what'd be silly.
>>
> 
> And yet that's what 2804, what you have repeatedly cited, explicitly
> states. I'm going to go with the definition given there, "silly" or not.

The definition in 2804 is not silly, nor did I say it was.

I said your implication that "collaboration" => "not
wiretapping" was silly.

> This isn't wiretapping: it's *something else* potentially bad, but not all
> surveillance is wiretapping.

Not all surveillance is wiretapping, sure, that is
true.

What is also true is that the draft being discussed
is entirely clearly usable for wiretapping in some
applications that use TLS according to the definition
in 2804.

S.


> 
> Kyle
>