Re: [TLS] WGLC for draft-ietf-tls-ticketrequests

Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com> Sun, 02 February 2020 19:05 UTC

Return-Path: <tpauly@apple.com>
X-Original-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE56E120133 for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 2 Feb 2020 11:05:31 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.001
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7xcutuZjQnhg for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 2 Feb 2020 11:05:30 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp02.apple.com (ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp02.apple.com [17.171.2.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 553A212012D for <tls@ietf.org>; Sun, 2 Feb 2020 11:05:30 -0800 (PST)
Received: from pps.filterd (ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp02.apple.com [127.0.0.1]) by ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp02.apple.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id 012Iv9DG034763 for <tls@ietf.org>; Sun, 2 Feb 2020 11:05:28 -0800
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apple.com; h=sender : from : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version : subject : date : references : to : in-reply-to : message-id; s=20180706; bh=eyyqOyFQazGluhMYLZ6BDYmbsXaq3AJvnYFpaR89AQ8=; b=SG+GhdSYy9pw2d3MhkGcdco64lIpG+hn5E/VZvKb04IMSJfvR+G99L9AINK3S1eu0bPM JZCGcUW40xvx05hMeTRndJyJFjqZxWwHUe2A3D78ppqCdJqjRliJ0plpoHwc7D8AX0Ec FCnTXK2MxDT6O0dtrpWuxYdvWdMUlGPFzTdmZ1eU2S6fwQihOVffZgY6L7hUz1VMUGqr RmqAHwt3AGGD1aQg2qLpUaLJmJxI1Qab3NR6/WQFSIrIN86MqIrTV02l90yg3dVI1bfz OzXcM3TftIZqP0ynTtfWAY2OSMxQ3Nx972PcR5gtK5MzyMp/xkzCMR1J/uAXBtEIWKrY 2g==
Received: from rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp01.rno.apple.com (rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp01.rno.apple.com [10.225.203.149]) by ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp02.apple.com with ESMTP id 2xw6vwqukk-2 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for <tls@ietf.org>; Sun, 02 Feb 2020 11:05:28 -0800
Received: from nwk-mmpp-sz13.apple.com (nwk-mmpp-sz13.apple.com [17.128.115.216]) by rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp01.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.1.20190704 64bit (built Jul 4 2019)) with ESMTPS id <0Q5300B7O914IO30@rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp01.rno.apple.com> for tls@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Feb 2020 11:05:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from process_milters-daemon.nwk-mmpp-sz13.apple.com by nwk-mmpp-sz13.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.2.4.20190507 64bit (built May 7 2019)) id <0Q53001008OIV700@nwk-mmpp-sz13.apple.com> for tls@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Feb 2020 11:05:28 -0800 (PST)
X-Va-A:
X-Va-T-CD: 3ab6cfbeef9fe0930bcbd49ada4d0cd2
X-Va-E-CD: 7f7e14a8463c26a765e1ab3769b5d901
X-Va-R-CD: 6a2bc58b15f70a522f15c151e4c2a302
X-Va-CD: 0
X-Va-ID: 80c672c9-fa21-4572-83e1-1bc83f035c8c
X-V-A:
X-V-T-CD: 3ab6cfbeef9fe0930bcbd49ada4d0cd2
X-V-E-CD: 7f7e14a8463c26a765e1ab3769b5d901
X-V-R-CD: 6a2bc58b15f70a522f15c151e4c2a302
X-V-CD: 0
X-V-ID: d5892240-5735-40f4-a5d6-dbd4fd8a6d3e
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:,, definitions=2020-02-02_06:,, signatures=0
Received: from [17.234.29.189] (unknown [17.234.29.189]) by nwk-mmpp-sz13.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.2.4.20190507 64bit (built May 7 2019)) with ESMTPSA id <0Q53006GV911GI00@nwk-mmpp-sz13.apple.com> for tls@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Feb 2020 11:05:25 -0800 (PST)
Sender: tpauly@apple.com
From: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.7.2.3\))
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2020 11:05:24 -0800
References: <20200202115203.GK49778@straasha.imrryr.org> <1DEFB79F-802A-452C-8AE3-41336AC58F25@apple.com> <20200202175309.GL49778@straasha.imrryr.org>
To: tls@ietf.org
In-reply-to: <20200202175309.GL49778@straasha.imrryr.org>
Message-id: <53913E7D-765D-473B-980D-088F3D9D0C4D@apple.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.7.2.3)
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2020-02-02_06:, , signatures=0
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/beR5XHI8pq7T8ZVY5Enfj7Pawco>
Subject: Re: [TLS] WGLC for draft-ietf-tls-ticketrequests
X-BeenThere: tls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls/>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2020 19:05:32 -0000


> On Feb 2, 2020, at 9:53 AM, Viktor Dukhovni <ietf-dane@dukhovni.org> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Feb 02, 2020 at 06:42:56AM -0800, Tommy Pauly wrote:
> 
>> If you did need a sentinel to indicate that you wanted to try to reuse
>> a ticket (which you can always try if you want), it would make more
>> sense to just make that sentinel be 255, etc, rather than creating two
>> sentinels.
> 
> Sure, if you want to swap my 0 <-> 255, that'd be fine by me, then
> 0--254 are "natural", and 255 means "only as needed".  If that's what it
> takes to reach a compromise, I'm on board.
> 
>> The ticket reuse signaling that is proposed really is orthogonal to the *count* of tickets.
> 
> Except that it really isn't.  Reuse means: 0 tickets or 1 ticket when
> the one presented is or soon will become unusable.  There's no way to
> decouple that from the ticket count.

I don’t see why one should limit the number of tickets that can be requested to only 1 in a case in which a client wants ticket reuse, since the entire point of this extension message is to allow requesting multiple. I understand that there may be some scenarios in which a client requests multiple on the initial handshake, and then wants only one more after that, but that’s not necessarily the case.

For example, I connect once, and request 4 tickets so I can do happy eyeballs attempts (one for v4 and v6 on each Wi-Fi and Cell, say). When I try to connect later, I end up using all four of those tickets on attempts, but only one succeeds. Now I want 4 more, but only have one connection. If you wanted to have your ticket reuse signaling in this case, you’d want to express “either give me 4 new tickets, or let me know I can reuse the previous four”, in which case overloading values in the number of tickets is indeed reducing the expressivity of the mechanism.

Tommy

> 
> 
> -- 
>    Viktor.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TLS mailing list
> TLS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls