Re: [TLS] (draft) WG adoption call: draft-bmoeller-tls-falsestart
Brian Smith <brian@briansmith.org> Wed, 01 April 2015 20:16 UTC
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Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2015 10:16:03 -1000
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From: Brian Smith <brian@briansmith.org>
To: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [TLS] (draft) WG adoption call: draft-bmoeller-tls-falsestart
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Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com> wrote: > On 31 March 2015 at 19:33, Brian Smith <brian@briansmith.org> wrote: >> >> 4. The references to (FF-)DHE key exchange being acceptable for False >> Start are removed. Although it may be possible to safely implement >> False start for FF-DHE, the current draft isn't a good starting point >> for specifying how that might be done. It's better to remove the >> references until an adequate description of doing False Start for >> FF-DHE key exchange is available, if ever. > > I agree with most of what Brian says, particularly with respect to > only accepting the "best" profile of TLS here. However, I am > generally leery of making specific recommendations regarding cipher > suite choice. With the explicit groups, this might be OK. Without > explicit groups, I think that Brian's point is completely valid. Implementing the negotiated FF-DHE mechanism as specified definitely isn't sufficient and may not be necessary for doing False Start with FF-DHE cipher suites: 1 The negotiated FF-DHE spec still allows the client to use FF-DHE parameters that it didn't send, in order to interop with implementations, as long as it has some "policy" for handling that case. For False Start, such a policy would have to be defined. 2. As I noted in the Firefox bug, even if the client only does False Start with parameters it advertised in its FF-DHE extension, there is still potential for material downgrade if the weakest FF-DHE parameters it advertises are weaker than the ECDHE curves it supports. 3. Even if the client doesn't implement ECDHE at all, the weakest FF-DHE key it offers during FF-DHE parameter negotiation may not be strong enough to do False Start. Given the research I did for Firefox that showed that any reasonably definition of "strong enough" is practically equivalent to disabling False Start for FF-DHE, it seems not to be worthwhile to bother trying to define "strong enough." Cheers, Brian
- Re: [TLS] (draft) WG adoption call: draft-bmoelle… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] (draft) WG adoption call: draft-bmoeller-tl… Sean Turner
- Re: [TLS] (draft) WG adoption call: draft-bmoelle… Sean Turner
- Re: [TLS] (draft) WG adoption call: draft-bmoelle… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [TLS] (draft) WG adoption call: draft-bmoelle… Andrei Popov
- Re: [TLS] (draft) WG adoption call: draft-bmoelle… Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] (draft) WG adoption call: draft-bmoelle… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] (draft) WG adoption call: draft-bmoelle… Brian Smith
- Re: [TLS] (draft) WG adoption call: draft-bmoelle… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [TLS] (draft) WG adoption call: draft-bmoelle… Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] (draft) WG adoption call: draft-bmoelle… Brian Smith
- Re: [TLS] (draft) WG adoption call: draft-bmoelle… Bodo Moeller
- Re: [TLS] (draft) WG adoption call: draft-bmoelle… Sean Turner
- Re: [TLS] (draft) WG adoption call: draft-bmoelle… Bodo Moeller
- Re: [TLS] (draft) WG adoption call: draft-bmoelle… Sean Turner