Re: [TLS] Eleven out of every ten SSL certs aren't valid

Ivan Ristic <ivan.ristic@gmail.com> Tue, 29 June 2010 20:22 UTC

Return-Path: <ivan.ristic@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: tls@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 445563A67F9 for <tls@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:22:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.161
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.161 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.438, BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mP9SmJ-VSfD7 for <tls@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:22:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-fx0-f44.google.com (mail-fx0-f44.google.com [209.85.161.44]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A71B53A67E7 for <tls@ietf.org>; Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:22:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by fxm1 with SMTP id 1so17715fxm.31 for <tls@ietf.org>; Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:22:51 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Y2QSJE0SrWJhTgmDz4AJOc8V7kESWMINfopSkhnejto=; b=IDFzSMvd/KpGu6QVDmTs+Pc2612pqA+ldims5e6DyRsvNfwsd7d6aPn6iiAqEXCHu2 9eqX+Vd/slzs5sBbfXqt2iUA+Y+9G5MUkqAiDLd6OwDpnTjqbsXlP6Iy0gQ0eO6/Zc73 DEZnCAOWxlgVPklGwhSrkVqIf1rXR6BNAXRBI=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=PZ4dKnkCmf1Gjk//3m/uc6R/Ldos6fqVImesS1wdCNZ8HhEUoTgm/uPw+06vKvcKEq XIsZ2l4GIEh5kFN2Mdllvh6JmNuCebsFWYelhwBRpsnHaCRWtAnwN6OdO1f9onNTHGo4 bayBSXrdW6FdK2VQPDmL45ft8NTzIq5Njd8oM=
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.239.189.136 with SMTP id t8mr461131hbh.89.1277842970667; Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:22:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.239.164.79 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:22:50 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <4C2A45C9.3010608@extendedsubset.com>
References: <E1OTVaY-0004g3-OW@wintermute02.cs.auckland.ac.nz> <20100629163354.GR11785@oracle.com> <AANLkTim6sYWlPSRUwYHP4UfkUNkfiVQ7xbj28fF6fOmz@mail.gmail.com> <4C2A45C9.3010608@extendedsubset.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 21:22:50 +0100
Message-ID: <AANLkTinHVJGrnBl93qCfrrbHGlTP_yEMX8PMRduSIKgd@mail.gmail.com>
From: Ivan Ristic <ivan.ristic@gmail.com>
To: Marsh Ray <marsh@extendedsubset.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Cc: tls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [TLS] Eleven out of every ten SSL certs aren't valid
X-BeenThere: tls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/tls>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 20:22:46 -0000

On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 8:13 PM, Marsh Ray <marsh@extendedsubset.com> wrote:
> First of all, count me as one who thinks Ivan's work is really cool.
>
> On 06/29/2010 01:29 PM, Ivan Ristic wrote:
>>
>> The problem with that view is that, while the users are experiencing
>> all those sites with invalid certificates they are getting used to the
>> idea that nothing bad comes from browser warnings.
>
> But we don't know that, do we?

Of course we do, from anecdotal evidence. The worst offenders are on
intranets/private hosts everywhere.


> I mean, I can set up a web hosting server with an HTTPS-based "webmin" (or
> whatever admin page I might want to use). I could protect that admin login
> using a cert issued by my own private CA. I could then v-host 1000 non-SSL
> web sites, still using only a single shared IP address.
>
> Doesn't your methodology count this case as "1001 invalid certs" where, in
> reality, everything that is supposed to work is configured correctly?

I disagree that your described setup is working correctly. In my view,
if you delegate a domain name to a server, you should either respond
properly (with the same site) on both 80 and 443, or shut down port
443 if you don't need/want SSL.


> - Marsh

-- 
Ivan Ristic
ModSecurity Handbook [http://www.modsecurityhandbook.com]
SSL Labs [https://www.ssllabs.com/ssldb/]