Re: [Tools-discuss] postconfirm

[Henrik Levkowetz <[e-mail]>]

On 2019-06-25 04:35, Robert Sparks wrote:
> I think mark’s point is that the people he was trying to reach
> triaged the mail on the subject and never looked at the body (so a
> body change would be a no-op).

That's not how I read Mark's email.

> As an aside, we have other templates that pull the envelope into the
> template. Perhaps this one should go there too?

The problem here is that the confirmation verification code looks at the
subject line, by ignoring some parts (like tacked-on Re:) and splits the
remainder in group.  The Subject template should be close to that code to
avoid getting them out of sync; and, as indicated below, body changes do
not require code changes, but Subject changes almost certainly _will_
require code changes.  So no, the Subject line should not be part of the
body template.

	Henrik

> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 24, 2019, at 7:28 PM, Henrik Levkowetz <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mark, Robert,
>> 
>>> On 2019-06-25 01:52, Mark Nottingham wrote:
>>> That would really help. Could we also start the mail with something like:
>>> 
>>> "Attention: your message has not been posted to the list yet. Please confirm your posting by..."?
>> 
>> The body is based on a template, so easily changed.  Changing the subject
>> line has repercussions on the code, so let's see if a body change would
>> be enough.  So, the proposal is to change the body as follows:
>> 
>> Old template text:
>> 
>>  Confirmation of list posting -- confirmation ID: $filename
>> 
>>  The ietf.org mailing-list server has received a list posting from 
>>  $sender to $recipient with the subject 
>>  '$[msg["subject"]]'
>> 
>>  As the sender address isn't subscribed to the list, and has not been
>>  confirmed earlier, we have to request a confirmation of the address.
>>  To confirm the address, send a message to $recipient,
>>  with the same subject line as this message.
>> 
>>  (Simply sending a 'reply' to this message should work from most email
>>  interfaces, since that usually leaves the subject line in the right
>>  form.  The reply's additional "Re:" is ok.)
>> 
>>  If you do not wish your posting to the list to go through, simply
>>  disregard this message.  Questions to $[conf.admin_address].
>> 
>> New template text:
>> 
>>  Attention: your message has not been posted to the list yet.
>>  Please confirm your posting by responding to this message:
>> 
>>  The ietf.org mailing-list server has received a list posting from 
>>  $sender to $recipient with the subject 
>>  '$[msg["subject"]]'
>> 
>>  As the sender address isn't subscribed to the list, and has not been
>>  confirmed earlier, we have to request a confirmation of the address.
>>  To confirm the address, send a message to $recipient,
>>  with the same subject line as this message.
>> 
>>  (Simply sending a 'reply' to this message should work from most email
>>  interfaces, since that usually leaves the subject line in the right
>>  form.  The reply's additional "Re:" is ok.)
>> 
>>  If you do not wish your posting to the list to go through, simply
>>  disregard this message.  Questions to $[conf.admin_address].
>> 
>> Does that match your proposal?
>> 
>> 
>>    Henrik
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 25 Jun 2019, at 4:23 am, Robert Sparks <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Perhaps start the subject with "Action Required:" ?
>>>> 
>>>> RjS
>>>> 
>>>>> On 6/23/19 9:28 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2019-06-24 03:05, Mark Nottingham wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For the escape-workshop-pc mailing list, we had a number of
>>>>>> submissions from non-IETF people get stuck at the confirmation stage,
>>>>>> because people who were not familiar with postman norms didn't
>>>>>> realise they had to respond to the confirm message.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In particular, the Subject of the e-mail is "Confirm: ...", and the
>>>>>> most prominent line is "Confirmation of list posting -- confirmation
>>>>>> ID: ..." -- which can be read to say that THIS e-mail is confirming
>>>>>> that posting has already occurred.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Would it be possible to rewrite the confirmation message to make it
>>>>>> more clear to busy readers that they need to act on the message?
>>>>>> 
>>>>> Certainly.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Do you have a proposal for the changed message?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>>    Henrik
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>>>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>>>>> 
>>>>> [e-mail]
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
>>>>> bugs at 
>>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>>>>> 
>>>>> or send email to 
>>>>> [e-mail]
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
>>>>> 
>>>>> or send email to 
>>>>> [e-mail]
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Mark Nottingham   https://www.mnot.net/
>>> 
>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>>> [e-mail]
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>> 
>>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
>>> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>>> or send email to [e-mail]
>>> 
>>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
>>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
>>> or send email to [e-mail]
>>> 
>> 
> 
>