Re: [Tools-discuss] Serving a partial documents (was Re: [rfc-i] Citing drafts)

tom petch <daedulus@btconnect.com> Sat, 27 February 2021 12:33 UTC

Return-Path: <daedulus@btconnect.com>
X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D36203A17BA for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 04:33:35 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.901
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btconnect.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9ebRDF33dCtY for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 04:33:33 -0800 (PST)
Received: from EUR02-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr10114.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.1.114]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E7E3E3A17B9 for <tools-discuss@ietf.org>; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 04:33:32 -0800 (PST)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=M32Qwj0mRU+JcYeWZe12RcJ+U6DhHPXlBXk7wybMReCEpChCCVVPV5w1CcZm08At31qnJznQz3Xn+/IR3FNLlaHHQ/P03qKRhnJ6U2UhmnsZw8117nvC3ki6QAVYPxxASqz22A0EhwoYvYjkpzbLFLZ3jkPh2k+OgMzc5IQ6AsAGZ6/Srs8wzqCpxSISjHJseDQnAzSts93FecuTJEJVdKEZCYaZo2LRXoNXaqM1z7AV4HRniYv7Ta6btzJzWD467b2Cr8L3CVl4kicHA5fe/FC9cH4vRMdrkX8p7bYqjTDr26QHWQTxv7S55OxV3UZ+PWYK+uiqHHVTzHCgfPCHTw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=pGIUrmNZ3ebh/ySak5LNLfsRbyzygIyI/o6NowzhDxg=; b=Uvzg8iKM0wL7LeLQ6GZoYqd3F34OO1P89CfEfX3nZrHroSolesNL/5tP50d/eczw1wRn/ZvOyOXz3q3SZ0XwCsxzhCGOZw+Gsq1+wvb9oCs5WWsQHHC27UcsHXX0ex9YLuQRCKbzTXBmQ+qCtH6I1ptf+/uvWKynBZlwmGW3AV3kY5Lq6zyYgvB6VSoDUPrq4U262fczgaledlpWgeiM0yF+7k9hBvEcgNVdVXz4WFZiqCPP4iPaf4by+Jdtk96zkyALCpCHB5pBGkYQLl7I0xTSmf4GqzoMJRIhYHNvTPOVf5Vxh9UjpyG0EVKCgsO9ss8fi/ZCD6INEWmIz2Q8Rg==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=btconnect.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=btconnect.com; dkim=pass header.d=btconnect.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btconnect.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-btconnect-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=pGIUrmNZ3ebh/ySak5LNLfsRbyzygIyI/o6NowzhDxg=; b=h88aKo4kck31deSmQw8xWGMMxCKhh27wt6IJtCVP5yJMnqo8sqdUhPUpxq8hLU6Nm4/TJWPQg2rlG5JM2Wwj22L0rC4ZZVrzbDi+7oCssbkLJTbS2f0mBk1YLF7bkO9iLc65YU4AdGnL9GUWlvIVe0v2rlDERuSbPc07hg09fDY=
Authentication-Results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=btconnect.com;
Received: from VI1PR07MB6704.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:800:18b::8) by VI1PR07MB4141.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:803:32::27) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3912.11; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 12:33:30 +0000
Received: from VI1PR07MB6704.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::58e4:6cf1:a739:545d]) by VI1PR07MB6704.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::58e4:6cf1:a739:545d%5]) with mapi id 15.20.3912.009; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 12:33:30 +0000
To: Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>, "Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com>, tools-discuss <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
References: <ca04c9b0-a466-2bdb-7a4b-192ec12fc3fd@gmx.de> <780EF9C1-11FA-4ED2-B206-1FD82A1204CE@tzi.org> <3fee246b-7a01-7a4f-cb7a-a548f4040bd1@nostrum.com> <60392FB9.9060801@btconnect.com> <CD75A86D-FE9E-4F63-BAF9-7EEE0C2D6F84@akamai.com> <1d0d18c2-f63d-c867-99ed-68c4ab6aa425@nostrum.com>
From: tom petch <daedulus@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <603A3C16.5070305@btconnect.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 12:33:26 +0000
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.0
In-Reply-To: <1d0d18c2-f63d-c867-99ed-68c4ab6aa425@nostrum.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Originating-IP: [86.146.121.140]
X-ClientProxiedBy: LO2P265CA0007.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:600:62::19) To VI1PR07MB6704.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:800:18b::8)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1
Received: from [192.168.1.65] (86.146.121.140) by LO2P265CA0007.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:600:62::19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.20.3890.24 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 12:33:29 +0000
X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email
X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 41684c90-0e42-4a56-4fb2-08d8db1be364
X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: VI1PR07MB4141:
X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: <VI1PR07MB414104891F08F1131F31C0D5C69C9@VI1PR07MB4141.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:7691;
X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1
X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;
X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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
X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:VI1PR07MB6704.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(366004)(39860400002)(136003)(396003)(346002)(376002)(33656002)(8936002)(26005)(8676002)(478600001)(6666004)(66476007)(110136005)(86362001)(5660300002)(16526019)(186003)(66946007)(66556008)(956004)(53546011)(36756003)(2616005)(83380400001)(6486002)(87266011)(316002)(16576012)(2906002)(966005)(52116002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: =?utf-8?B?UUVhRitTak11RmFPNkxxakJhcmtyNzhyUFA3NXM4L1BRdThFL3FsRGppS3Qv?= =?utf-8?B?N1pscksyMmg0OE1EM1F1Y252aEJJS3ZvRU93MGVtZHBjaVJrWG9qcjBPNk80?= =?utf-8?B?NDdad1JKM0NUUGpWNzRZSEgzRkRGWERQVHRBYmFhUitpWGlxZFdiaTlqN2xj?= =?utf-8?B?UEowaGlpSzlTcHMwN1djdmREa3JEVVdzUXpDYnN3RlhNRnhZdnA4Wkc4UFpo?= =?utf-8?B?NnVhREJKRGs2YU9HbG5MaTZLd0FUVjBnL1dpYUIvem9icGdLcDVabHNzU1Nt?= =?utf-8?B?R1JxT2FVb3dBMnVPU2hRbFBHQUIyTk9kbUxMcFpkRWtxczVqWUdjQTZRTU5Z?= =?utf-8?B?RFUrZkNzNm9Rd2pSQ1ViUlZGc3MrR1dEbG5lNGZncFF2dExHbW9wYTFlYTRL?= =?utf-8?B?NVNKbXMyRHBVUjBaYTYrMXRucUg1RE4vRVBFbzQ1cWd0anpBUlhvbnFtbUFY?= =?utf-8?B?QUw3SjB5OFBCWWd0N2g2Q1hGWk92R3pkbFo0NjNzbHJHMUpUS1M2Z2xDM285?= =?utf-8?B?Vzh3UGg0QTM3bXQvMUYraWxsRC9nVGpwcVdhNTZXU1UxbEdOZFBqV3NjYllH?= =?utf-8?B?MG9vRTcxV2dWNkVudUxwanhxem1jWHhZaE1NZUZqL2J1Rncrd2ZUWUNJYWZ6?= =?utf-8?B?TWNqZUJ1OXE3SFY5ZXdkUFk3akxDZS9pYTBMbGZlc0F2dWJ5NGQwVVpsMXlo?= =?utf-8?B?b0l4QTJ6TWsvRkVmV3N6RG1lZU1oblNXcERtdjZlN25XYXdyNytNTXBpNWNr?= =?utf-8?B?ajc5RDJkYWhVdGlZQ1RGOXNvQUVtZkhTNnVuY2FDdno2Q1Q1cUJNeDFKSXA4?= =?utf-8?B?Z29IUEV0V0lqSmhJSEFCdEhnYU00dmNic095a29sZVV0MnFQcWxoQis2ODV1?= =?utf-8?B?V0xHd2t0T2J2MXpTeHJCMk96ajRXSXVacTE5dlNJTXdnR0V2cHhObjI3M3NJ?= =?utf-8?B?ZnVmQmdHZ3VUOURvWE92WjBGWlBFYnNMU1d5RFZmVnZxMEsvSHVESHBYZDdP?= =?utf-8?B?NDAxemt5aXNTb0U5b0dXMGlDRDJ5Vmc1R28xc3lpU0pnTHdtcjZoK2pqSjRS?= =?utf-8?B?YWozR0hkbTBMVGIyMDQ4enRDcUVsRHRrRDd1c3NmbVZ6TysrV0trUVRXNzNQ?= =?utf-8?B?V2VyWjNBSlNJQWw3OGpOZHQyM1l3S1kwRkRRcW9OcFdEMXZyRXd1bXF4OWt3?= =?utf-8?B?V2Zra2JmQmtMTDlUZXZCUHJ3VHZDY2dPTnBZL01xbzB1OG1IU3NTdndwWUU5?= =?utf-8?B?ckkydXdaa0ZnSGhaekV1RkhpeDlXUCtSOUxPbEdpZmpqUllEVnk2WndkUGQ2?= =?utf-8?B?ZjMzRzdGZTdvUHpHSnUrMHFrRHg2aWp2RXBsMXpGclAyVldpSDJsdW5LRXdk?= =?utf-8?B?R3B2Vi8xa2todDFSaVhOaVhyRUZuUlUzREFJaVlVYldKaDJaL1NBZXhzL3Bt?= =?utf-8?B?NWhma3U5RTJsQXh6T3c0TnVLMDZQWXVDYnVLVHgzYW5lUVJkSWlZTHZJdzRu?= =?utf-8?B?QnVKSmZwSnhWR05vdFBaaGJjdHdHZ0d5d1N5ZnMxSmViTzYzYmRZR25iWVZI?= =?utf-8?B?ZXZ2M1NLZ2UxWGtOdEVJbGQxYWR6bEpiNUJydVl5ZG9xRGFOVFlzRHZxbng2?= =?utf-8?B?ZUJKMVd2OW9iTjY1bVVxYmFXeFdjM282Y3VadzZzV1AvR05DckthS2Y1dER1?= =?utf-8?B?RUhvRFlXVk03VTlSdG84ODY1MFFvSDBLc0lOaWNpNW8rMHVvR2lNSG4rWmRL?= =?utf-8?Q?VnV6Tg6FgKL5r9orSDPhDxOFGUXZMTsteQf3dp9?=
X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 41684c90-0e42-4a56-4fb2-08d8db1be364
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: VI1PR07MB6704.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Feb 2021 12:33:30.2589 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: 2OenoRAtxml2Ohlm6ixLWGeHXlmbdFEWQh/HC9VkKz/foEyHwzDDK0q8GXOmqvnx0RdSFYuE3Cu+85CMBvQzvA==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB4141
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/rjB0TS-2kYJuvdIdoXqBrc8iZKc>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Serving a partial documents (was Re: [rfc-i] Citing drafts)
X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion <tools-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tools-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:tools-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 12:33:36 -0000

On 26/02/2021 18:02, Robert Sparks wrote:
> So, I _think_ the way the main document page behaves now was intended to
> protect people on low bandwidth or expensive bandwidth connections from
> very large documents.
>
> Is that still something we should consider important? Or would it be
> better if the main page served the whole document all the time?

Keep something like the current behaviour.
e-mail used to be user-friendly but now I get 20Mbyte e-mails containing 
home-movies and I do not want them!  Ever!  They take time to download, 
blocking access, they take up space and are slow, or impossible, to 
process.  The senders are unaware, or do not care, about the impact of 
what they are doing.  Keep them to social media.

Currently, I see plain text I-D in the hundreds of kbyte, some I seem to 
recall are over 500 kbyte, one I think was 2Mbyte (although that may 
have been a .pdf), and I expect that the maximum will go on getting 
larger and larger.
Up to 50kbyte, perhaps 100kbyte, is ok with current technology but I 
think there should be a limit beyond which the user is warned about the 
size and should not have it just dumped on them.

There may also be format issues, as when no plain text is available, 
which could again warrant a warning before inflicting it on the user.

Tom Petch

>
> RjS
>
> On 2/26/21 11:46 AM, Salz, Rich wrote:
>> Moved from rfc-interest (BCC) to tools-discuss.
>>
>>>     My pet hate is that I have to scroll to the bottom before I can
>>> tell the
>>      system that I want the lot.
>>
>> (Are hates what peeves become when fully grown? :)
>> One the one hand, I get it.  I find it annoying too.  On the other
>> hand, you're presumably already down at the bottom of the page at the
>> time you see it. On the third hand, it's annoying to have to tweak the
>> link if you already started sharing it. On the fourth hand, it could
>> be an easy change.
>>
>> When would you want to get the full document?  When you click on a
>> document from the WG page?  (e.g.,
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/acme/documents/ )