Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i.e., stuck)
Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de> Mon, 16 March 2020 09:19 UTC
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From: Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>
In-Reply-To: <5b8f776e-75ca-aaf6-0137-f8189db49259@bobbriscoe.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2020 10:19:27 +0100
Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" <ietf@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>, "tsvwg@ietf.org" <tsvwg@ietf.org>
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References: <202003142218.02EMIJ9D085996@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> <5b8f776e-75ca-aaf6-0137-f8189db49259@bobbriscoe.net>
To: Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>
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Subject: Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i.e., stuck)
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Hi Bob, > On Mar 15, 2020, at 11:50, Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net> wrote: > > Rod, > > On 14/03/2020 22:18, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >> Bob, >> Questions and comments in line. >> >> >> >>> Finding the best max packet size is an area where neither IPv4 nor IPv6 >>> has ever found a good solution. Getting a tunnel to fragment and >>> reassemble is indeed painfully sub-optimal, but all the other solutions >>> have their own problems. It is possible the sub-optimality is often >>> going on under-the-covers, just because it works. I do know that, for >>> IPv4, the Don't Fragment (DF) flag is often ignored by tunnels, as a >>> preferable alternative to just ditching the traffic. >>> >>> >> >> What do you base your "know" on? >> Can you please site an implementaiton? >> > > Here's a selection of implementations that allow you to configure clearing the DF flag in order to allow fragmentation prior to encapsulation: > • Cisco IOS: https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/ios-xml/ios/sec_conn_dplane/configuration/15-mt/sec-ipsec-data-plane-15-mt-book/sec-df-bit-ovride.html > • Juniper JunOS: https://www.juniper.net/documentation/en_US/junos/topics/reference/configuration-statement/clear-dont-fragment-bit-edit-interfaces.html > • Huawei: https://support.huawei.com/enterprise/en/doc/EDOC1100034238/a1bd518c/optional-configuring-the-df-flag-bit-for-gre-packets > • Ericsson Redback: http://rbman.ito.expert/en_lzn7830011_1_r4a/3_19082-CRA1191170_1-V1Uen.G.html#CHAPTER1.59 > • Linux: iptables -t mangle -A PREROUTING -j DF --clear > While searching, I also found clear-df by accident in a firewall manual (not even doing any tunnelling) [SM] Isn't that a gross violation of the end-to-end principle? Or is the interpretation of the DF flag here, do not deliver fragments to the end-points, but anything transparent is fair game? > > And I even discovered "clear-df" in an (expired) individual Internet Draft from Ericsson for the Yang data model of an IPv4 tunnel: > draft-liu-intarea-ipipv4-tunnel-yang-02 [SM] That might be use a "cover all bases" approach without actually endorsing any such use (let's try to model actual in-the-field-reality compared to RFC-reality). > > Note, these are not to be confused with suppressing propagation of DF=1 from the arriving IP header to the outer (so that a downstream router within the tunnel is allowed to fragment). In Linux, that would be: iptables -t mangle -A POSTROUTING -j DF --clear > > So yes, I know this is often done, but I don't know how often. [SM] Bigger question, should the IETF actually endorse something like that? Best Regards Sebastian > > > > Bob > -- > ________________________________________________________________ > Bob Briscoe > http://bobbriscoe.net/
- [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i.e.,… Black, David
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Black, David
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Jonathan Morton
- [tsvwg] SCE / L4S and fragmentation (was: Status … Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Holland, Jake
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Holland, Jake
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Holland, Jake
- Re: [tsvwg] SCE / L4S and fragmentation (was: Sta… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Rodney W. Grimes
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] SCE / L4S and fragmentation Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] SCE / L4S and fragmentation Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Rodney W. Grimes
- Re: [tsvwg] SCE / L4S and fragmentation Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] SCE / L4S and fragmentation Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] SCE / L4S and fragmentation Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] SCE / L4S and fragmentation Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] SCE / L4S and fragmentation Wesley Eddy
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Rodney W. Grimes
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Rodney W. Grimes
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Rodney W. Grimes
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… John Leslie
- Re: [tsvwg] Status of ECN encapsulation drafts (i… Holland, Jake
- Re: [tsvwg] SCE / L4S and fragmentation Black, David