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Re: [tsvwg] L4S operational guidance draft

Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de> Wed, 18 November 2020 07:31 UTC

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From: Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>
In-Reply-To: <AC9C3013-42DA-4378-BBA3-42ED673507A4@akamai.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 08:31:18 +0100
Cc: Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Pete Heist <pete@heistp.net>, Wesley Eddy <wes@mti-systems.com>, "tsvwg@ietf.org" <tsvwg@ietf.org>
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References: <b6bc81f5-e1f2-e226-1612-7f1070290bbd@mti-systems.com> <9CC37D46-3783-47DD-A1C8-7106EF437642@akamai.com> <f6ebc50de8d7ee42621a8db673f05d17ed8694c4.camel@heistp.net> <5FAF8D38-369B-4642-AAD2-BD5F7E430542@akamai.com> <HE1PR0701MB28761A98F113177964FC2AF2C2E10@HE1PR0701MB2876.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <AC9C3013-42DA-4378-BBA3-42ED673507A4@akamai.com>
To: "Holland, Jake" <jholland=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [tsvwg] L4S operational guidance draft
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> On Nov 18, 2020, at 08:24, Holland, Jake <jholland=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Ingemar,
> 
> On 11/17/20, 10:44 PM, "Ingemar Johansson S" <ingemar.s.johansson=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>> I interpret this as: 
>> 1) Flow queue AQMs don't work properly across tunnels, as flow isolation based om 5-tuple does not work
>> 2) L4S flows can potentially (or will) get an unfair share as a consequence of #1 above because the bootleneck only implement a RFC3168 ECN marking. 
>> 
>> Is this understanding correct ?
> 
> Yes, that's the issue.
> 
> The point being that FQ has the same troubles as shared queue for traffic
> that shares a tunnel, so FQ on its own is not enough of a mitigation for
> that use case, but the -01 version of the operational guidance draft
> doesn't really cover that point yet.

	[SM] Sidenote: t is quite disappointing that the TODO list contains a note to explain how FQ does not help against sharding instead:

"TODO: also mention that flow sharding is commonplace, so per-flow
   fairness does not imply per-application fairness"

A point (that lacks references for the expected frequency and is) completely irrelevant for the operational considerations for deploying L4S. It is that level of partisanship the permeates many L4S documents that leaves the impression L4S is not about find a technically sufficient solution, but also has an ax to grind...

Regards
	Sebastian


> 
> Best regards,
> Jake
> 
>

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