Re: [GNAP] Human rights perspective on W3C and IETF protocol interaction

Ted Thibodeau Jr <> Wed, 05 January 2022 19:04 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCD423A0CDB for <>; Wed, 5 Jan 2022 11:04:46 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.098
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key)
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8cXKWW9Kg9A0 for <>; Wed, 5 Jan 2022 11:04:41 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ( []) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7AFF93A0CC0 for <>; Wed, 5 Jan 2022 11:04:40 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=dkim-20170105; h=To:References:Message-Id:Cc:Date: In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Vwk6+X2C0R8iK7X4Hz7poID/wxtOHpf4OI5e9a2hU6I=; b=Vt8JvfyxQ0FCicg0t6+jeEk35 PD2wmfhij4HweybDgY8iMB2O2iLNaUOXVkFQahIPxkPQ7E1cWSPCl7rG6jz4IwzOtk/hE4iVbSq27 AowB9ElWq/i1pG96YnM11HhnspK+n9mkihQejiWZc6mkCaSbgitACgVEYJWu+Qen3OGUDspw15qrD TTbPHi+158ks66XYmG1BdZMe0Q4jFLY237CRNT0J5Xy4fLwPC8RNz0JiDv0pbUi9JmsGy6n7jlzv0 T1dtvDW4IFKrGoKqcv5WvgDS7yvDOZ9veGiepEy4RKNmpwQ1GsZAssHf83MazbES9shqEkFhrKe1Z 6mzXl7w0Q==;
Received: from ([] helo=tjtmbp2015.lan) by with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92.3) (envelope-from <>) id 1n5BaM-0004jV-8Q; Wed, 05 Jan 2022 20:04:34 +0100
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7748955A-1BEE-4983-B2A0-45ACA71A1014"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg="sha1"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\))
From: Ted Thibodeau Jr <>
In-Reply-To: <>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2022 14:04:27 -0500
Cc: GNAP Mailing List <>, W3C Credentials Community Group <>
Message-Id: <>
References: <> <> <>
To: Adrian Gropper <>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273)
Archived-At: <>
Subject: Re: [GNAP] Human rights perspective on W3C and IETF protocol interaction
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: GNAP <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2022 19:04:52 -0000

On Jan 5, 2022, at 10:11 AM, Adrian Gropper <> wrote:
> transferring responsibility from an issuer to a subject of a VC

For the eleventeenth time, the SUBJECT of a VC has NO CONTROL 
over anything to do with that VC.  The only entities with control 
of any kind are the Issuer, the Holder(s), and the Verifier.
In the wilderness of the World Wide Web, ANYONE CAN SAY ANYTHING 
ABOUT ANYTHING.  (This is not so different from the wilderness 
of paper-space.)

I could Issue a VC today, with you, Adrian, as the Subject, 
which contains anything I care to say about you.  I could say 
that you, Adrian, are the 14th moon orbiting Sol III (a/k/a 
the third planet orbiting our sun, a/k/a Planet Earth).  This 
is not actually a fact, of course, but I may nonetheless Assert 
it, and I may do so in a VC, which simply allows anyone to 
Verify that I did in fact Issue that Assertion within that VC.

I could Issue this VC with or without the knowledge of you,
the Subject, to any Holder of my choosing, who may Present
it to any Holder or Verifier of *their* choosing, without 
any alert to you, the Subject.

There is *nothing* that the CCG nor the VCWG nor the IETF nor
the UN nor the USGovt nor any other entity can do to prevent
me from doing so.  The USGovt *may* pass laws that impose 
penalties upon me or others who make such untrue assertions 
in VCs, but, to date, they have not, and there would be some 
lengthy freedom of speech litigation if such were enacted and
someone then attempted enforcement -- and this is the *most*
possible path to such restrictions.

Your various efforts will have much greater effect, perhaps
even delivering the results you want, if you digest this,
and work it into your various writings and excoriations of
the various WGs and CGs and other audiences you address.
Failure to integrate this reality into your output will
only lead to frustration on all sides, and failure to
reach any of your declared goals.

I believe that some of your efforts have value.  (I don't
know the totality of your efforts, so cannot say this about
everything you will do or have done.)  I would like to see
these benefit the world.  I do not believe that will happen
if you continue to ignore the hard-won vocabulary developed
by the CCG, VCWG, DIDWG, and related efforts.

Be seeing you,


A: Yes.                
| Q: Are you sure?           
| | A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
| | | Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?

Ted Thibodeau, Jr.           //               voice +1-781-273-0900 x32
Senior Support & Evangelism  //
OpenLink Software, Inc.      //    
         20 Burlington Mall Road, Suite 322, Burlington MA 01803
     Weblog    --
     Community --
     LinkedIn  --
     Twitter   --
     Facebook  --
Universal Data Access, Integration, and Management Technology Providers