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Re: [Uta] [art] Artart last call review of draft-ietf-uta-rfc7525bis-09

Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im> Wed, 03 August 2022 16:00 UTC

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Message-ID: <da5b62f6-9c38-0ec7-e566-d80edd4d570b@stpeter.im>
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2022 10:00:01 -0600
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To: Peter Gutmann <pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz>, Cullen Jennings <fluffy@iii.ca>
Cc: "draft-ietf-uta-rfc7525bis.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-uta-rfc7525bis.all@ietf.org>, "art@ietf.org" <art@ietf.org>, "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>, "uta@ietf.org" <uta@ietf.org>
References: <165728991008.45773.10659091812976572509@ietfa.amsl.com> <4c7fcbfe-5055-d33d-e1d1-27e85592551a@stpeter.im> <A0DD6035-C9D1-4FEC-A5E7-7D95FFC55602@iii.ca> <9c9922a8-93b5-611f-6433-dbac122dcc4f@stpeter.im> <e7b17bbe-0b6b-2a54-2100-b220a9afa92e@stpeter.im> <B186BFAC-6584-4395-837E-C8F09FE6AEC7@iii.ca> <e36b7842-9ebc-2fbd-54be-9a8a1fe05771@stpeter.im> <92ad78a4-5e28-31e8-aa25-b41cb0692ff3@stpeter.im> <SY4PR01MB625185A08074FECE804E5BABEE9C9@SY4PR01MB6251.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
From: Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im>
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Subject: Re: [Uta] [art] Artart last call review of draft-ietf-uta-rfc7525bis-09
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On 8/3/22 12:07 AM, Peter Gutmann wrote:
> Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im> writes:
> 
>> Hi Cullen, having looked more closely at the text that's already in 7525bis,
>> I have a few questions inline...
> 
> Me too, specifically in regard to the "DHE negotiation is broken" comment.
> The draft says:
> 
>        However, TLS 1.2 implementations SHOULD
>        NOT negotiate cipher suites based on ephemeral finite-field
>        Diffie-Hellman key agreement (i.e., "TLS_DHE_*" suites).  This is
>        justified by the known fragility of the construction (see
>        [RACCOON])
> 
> Raccoon relies on reuse of ephemeral values.  If a DH*Ephemeral*
> implementation reuses the ephemeral values it's not TLS_DHE_whatever any more,
> it's TLS_DH_whatever. So this isn't a valid criticism of DHE, since it's not
> DHE.
> 
> It's really not that hard to do DHE properly.  The solution isn't to throw out
> all use of DHE [0] but to specify what to do to avoid doing DHE badly.

Given that we already discuss these matters in Section 7.4, I don't see 
the need for additional text.

Peter

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