RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants
Adam Roach <adam@dynamicsoft.com> Mon, 01 March 2004 12:52 UTC
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From: Adam Roach <adam@dynamicsoft.com>
To: "'Drage, Keith (Keith)'" <drage@lucent.com>, Adam Roach <adam@dynamicsoft.com>, Eric Burger <eburger@snowshore.com>, "'xcon@ietf.org'" <xcon@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 06:33:41 -0600
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Er... I reponded to Eric, not to you. His message was the first in which legal intercept was raised. /a > -----Original Message----- > From: Drage, Keith (Keith) [mailto:drage@lucent.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 19:04 > To: 'Adam Roach'; 'Eric Burger'; 'xcon@ietf.org' > Subject: RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants > > > It would have been better that you replied to one of the > later messages in this thread. > > Your comments make it look like my own comments below refer > to legal intercept, when they do not. We have already agreed > that hidden participants are nothing to do with legal intercept. > > regards > > Keith > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Adam Roach [mailto:adam@dynamicsoft.com] > > Sent: 26 February 2004 03:46 > > To: Eric Burger; 'xcon@ietf.org' > > Subject: RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants > > > > > > I know this issue has been settled, but just as a general > > announcement for any work in any working group: the IAB > > and IESG have stated positions on the topic of legal > > intercept that are (to my understanding) binding on all > > IETF protocols. > > > > These positions are detailed in RFC 2804, and are > > summarized as follows: "The IETF has decided not to consider > > requirements for wiretapping as part of the process for > > creating and maintaining IETF standards." > > > > /a > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Eric Burger [mailto:eburger@snowshore.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 10:01 > > > To: xcon@ietf.org > > > Subject: RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants > > > > > > > > > Would Legal Intercept be in or out? E.g., hidden > > > participants that CANNOT be known. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Drage, Keith (Keith) [mailto:drage@lucent.com] > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 6:14 AM > > > > To: hisham.khartabil@nokia.com; mhammer@cisco.com > > > > Cc: xcon@ietf.org > > > > Subject: RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe hidden users are appropriate. > > > > > > > > I do not believe that this adds complexity to the > > > > specifications (particularly to the specification of CPCP), > > > > so I see no need to make it a DEFER as far as the > > > > specifications are concerned. It may add complexity to the > > > > implementation, so I am quite happy to see it a MAY in the > > > > requirements, so that it is optional to implement. > > > > > > > > As regards the legal implications of hidden users, then yes, > > > > there may be priveleged users that are able to request the > > > > identity of hidden users (along with an indication that they > > > > are hidden). This of course requires the enabling of such a > > > > privileged user in the first place. > > > > > > > > Secondly, it may not be necessary to identify hidden users, > > > > but merely that there are hidden users in the conference (in > > > > addition to any that may have made themselves visible). Some > > > > countries require some form of tone or announcement on voice > > > > conferences when someone else is listening in. They also > > > > require an announcement or other indication in the call is > > > > being recorded. > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > Keith > > > > > > > > Keith Drage > > > > Lucent Technologies > > > > drage@lucent.com > > > > tel: +44 1793 776249 > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: hisham.khartabil@nokia.com > > > [mailto:hisham.khartabil@nokia.com] > > > > > Sent: 15 December 2003 16:29 > > > > > To: mhammer@cisco.com > > > > > Cc: xcon@ietf.org > > > > > Subject: RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: ext Michael Hammer [mailto:mhammer@cisco.com] > > > > > > Sent: 15.December.2003 18:17 > > > > > > To: Khartabil Hisham (NMP-MSW/Helsinki) > > > > > > Cc: xcon@ietf.org > > > > > > Subject: Re: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Related to this is there a requirement that, while not > > > > > revealing the > > > > > > identity of a hidden user, the conference policy contains > > > > > > state indication > > > > > > about either the presence of hidden users, or the > > > > > > possibility/preclusion > > > > > > that such hidden users may be present? > > > > > > > > > > > > I am anticipating that: > > > > > > 1) Laws may exist that require notification of such. > > > > > > > > > > That's a good point. This might require changes to the > > > > > conference event package to indicate if there are hidden > > > > > participants or not, and if so, how many. > > > > > > > > > > The question remain: is there a need for such a feature (to > > > > > hide users?)? > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Hisham > > > > > > > > > > > 2) In some conferences, participants may want technical > > > > > > assurance that > > > > > > hidden users are not possible before they speak. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 02:55 PM 12/15/2003 +0200, > > hisham.khartabil@nokia.com wrote: > > > > > > >This is in reference to requirements REQ-A7 and REQ-E10 in > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-xcon-cpcp-reqs-00.txt > > > > > > > > REQ-A7: It SHOULD be possible to participate in a > > conference as a > > > > hidden user. Hidden user is present in a conference, but > > > his presence > > > > is not revealed. > > > > > > > > REQ-E10: It MUST be possible to allow and disallow > > > hidden membership > > > > in a conference. > > > > > > > >Should a conference policy, using CPCP, specify if a user > > > can be hidden? > > > >This means that the conference state package does not report the > > > >participation on the hidden user. CPCP is used to identify > > > which users are > > > >hidden. The list of hidden users is only manipulated by a > > > privileged user > > > >such as the moderator. > > > > > > > >Regards, > > > >Hisham > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >XCON mailing list > > > >XCON@ietf.org > > > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > XCON mailing list > > XCON@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon > > > > _______________________________________________ > > XCON mailing list > > XCON@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > XCON mailing list > XCON@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon > > _______________________________________________ > XCON mailing list > XCON@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon > _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon
- [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants hisham.khartabil
- RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants Rosen, Brian
- RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants hisham.khartabil
- Re: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants Michael Hammer
- RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants Michael Hammer
- RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants hisham.khartabil
- RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants hisham.khartabil
- RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants Michael Hammer
- RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants hisham.khartabil
- RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants Drage, Keith (Keith)
- RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants Drage, Keith (Keith)
- RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants Eric Burger
- RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants hisham.khartabil
- Re: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants Cullen Jennings
- RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants Chris Boulton
- RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants Drage, Keith (Keith)
- RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants hisham.khartabil
- RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants Eric Burger
- Re: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants Rohan Mahy
- RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants hisham.khartabil
- RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants Adam Roach
- Re: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants Rohan Mahy
- RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants Adam Roach
- Re: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants Rohan Mahy
- RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants Drage, Keith (Keith)