Re: [Add] ADD Calls for WF Adoption

[Eric Rescorla <[e-mail]>]

Adoption does not mean that the document can be discussed. Documents can be
discussed by WGs without being adopted. Indeed, this often happens for
quite some time before WG adoption, especially in cases where there are
multiple candidate WG documents for the same use case.

WG adoption means (at minimum):
1. The WG is taking control of the document
2. The WG intends to work on the document
3. The WG will prioritize work on this document above non-adopted documents.

For the reasons I indicated in my objection, I do not believe that this in
fact is what we should do with the deployment considerations document (and
increasingly, with the other, though my objection was not to that).

-Ekr



On Sun, Oct 31, 2021 at 12:17 PM Geoff Huston <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Hi Eric,
>
> So here we are in a call as to whether documents should be discussed by
> the WG and we are doing just that. Seems to me that the adoption question
> is already answered.
>
> No, I do not believe that WG adoption means that the document describes a
> good idea nor one that is going to lead to some published document(s). It
> means that a bunch of folk want to talk about it and discuss their various
> interpretations of the concepts exposed in the document(s). It may lead
> somewhere. Or it may be a set of terrible ideas and lead nowhere. And
> that’s fine. WG Adoption is not an endorsement of the concepts, nor should
> it ever be.
>
> I support DISCUSSING these draft. I don’t necessarily agree with the
> draft, nor can I (or anyone else for that matter) claim that the WG
> “supports” these drafts until the WG discusses them. I don’t support
> peremptorily stopping discussion of these drafts by not adopting these
> document. It appears that they are in scope for the WG’s area of study, and
> I that’s a reasonable position to support adoption by the WG group.
>
> regards,
>
>    Geoff
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 29 Oct 2021, at 3:11 pm, Eric Rescorla <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Glenn,
> >
> > Let me start by saying that I don't agree with a number
> > of your assertions here, in particular about the requirements
> > for adoption. While it's not *simply* a matter of numbers,
> > having a reasonable level of support is in fact necessary
> > for consensus.
> >
> > However, before we debate those, let's start by getting to common
> > facts. I believe Tommy wrote you with concerns about both drafts, but
> > let's start with draft-boucadair-add-deployment-considerations.
> >
> > I have provided you with a list of the people expressing each
> > position. Your message lists Jim Reid and Diego Lopez.  I am unable to
> > find a message indicating support for this draft from Diego though did
> > find one from Jim Reid. However, in that search I also find a message
> > somewhat opposing adoption from Martin Thomson (I belive he is opposed
> > so I'm sure I can arrange for a more direct message if you like).
> >
> > So, can you please provide links to the messages from people who
> > are in support of this draft?
> >
> > -Ekr
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 8:57 AM Deen, Glenn <Glenn_Deen=
> [e-mail]> wrote:
> > Hi ADD,
> >
> >
> >
> > I wanted to bring to the ADD Group’s attention that 2 documents have
> entered into CALL for WG Adoption in the last couple of days:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >       • Draft-reddy-add-enterprise-split-dns
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-reddy-add-enterprise-split-dns/
> >
> >
> >       • Draft-boucadair-add-deployment-considerations
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-add-deployment-considerations/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Both drafts are material that has had good discussion both on list and
> during past ADD meetings so please consult the archive and meeting minutes,
> especially IETF110 and IETF111 if you need additional background.
> >
> >
> >
> > Both are in a 2 week call for adoption, with the first ending on Oct
> 26,2021 and the second on Oct 27,2021.
> >
> >
> >
> > Please respond on list with comments on these calls.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Glenn
> >
> > --
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>
>