Re: [arch-d] Proposed IAB program on Wholistic Human-Oriented Discussions on Identity Systems (WHODIS)

[tom petch <[e-mail]>]

From: Architecture-discuss <[e-mail]> on behalf of Toerless Eckert <[e-mail]>
Sent: 22 June 2023 03:37

Wholistic and Human-Oriented are somewhat imprecise terms, maybe explaining what
they're supposed to mean in this context would help.

<tp>
Holistic I am well familiar with but Whol... sounds like an abomination.

Tom Petch



Given how Device Identities, both insecure and secure (through public keys, certificates
or othrer means) are a broadly accepted term in the industry, and given how the mayority of
such devices are (luckily) not tied to individual humans (think light bulbs in street lights with IDevID),
it would certinly be very important to understand how "wholistic" this discussion is
meant to be. "Human-Oriented" can easily be interpreted as a contradiction to "Wholistic".

Cheers
    toerless

On Thu, Jun 22, 2023 at 09:40:17AM +1000, Martin Thomson wrote:
> I think that I disagree with Eliot with respect to the device thing.
>
> >From my perspective, devices are relevant only to the extent that they are agents of or proxies for people.
>
> There are contexts in which this is not the case, but the considerations are very different in those cases.
>
> You should include reference to how government-provided identity systems integrate with technology (e.g., Aadhar).  Mobile drivers licenses are an emerging trend that needs care and consideration, see https://www.ul.com/resources/new-isoiec-standard-electronic-credentials
>
> Colleagues at Mozilla have done a lot of work in this space; we might be interested in participation.
>
> (I also disagree with Eliot; the name is not just fine, but a good choice.  A great pairing for OHAI, which is a useful tool in this space, as it happens.)
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2023, at 03:06, Eliot Lear wrote:
> > I think it sounds interesting, and I'm interested!  Obviously this is a
> > very active area, and has been for a long time, so your proposed
> > approach sounds pretty good.  It's good that IAB is giving it some focus.
> >
> > One nit:
> >
> > I do think you are just a bit too cutsy with the name, since you
> > specifically call out device identity, as you should.  I would suggest
> > that the name itself might mislead people to think you're only talking
> > about user identity. Perhaps Big Fat Discussions on Identity Systems
> > (BiFDIS)?  ;-)
> >
> > A meta-comment:
> >
> > I like the idea of reviewing identity systems, but often times those
> > systems are tied necessarily to specific functions, as OAUTH
> > demonstrates.  I would suggest that the program not be too rigid about
> > its charter in this regard.  Some underlying functionality may help
> > elaborate the need for different sorts of systems.
> >
> > Eliot
> >
> > On 21.06.23 08:01, Christopher Wood wrote:
> >> Hi folks,
> >>
> >> The IAB proposes to create a new program that focuses on standardized identity systems used in practice. At a high level, there are three primary goals:
> >>
> >> 1. Survey the identity standardization landscape (inside and outside of the IETF);
> >> 2. Distill practical use cases for identity systems; and
> >> 3. Identify gaps and opportunities for technical work that can help address important use cases.
> >>
> >> A more complete description of the proposed program can be found at [1]. For those interested, we intend to allocate some time during the IAB Open meeting at IETF 117 to discuss this topic.
> >>
> >> Please let us know what you think!
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Chris, for the IAB
> >>
> >> [1] https://github.com/intarchboard/proposed-program-whodis/blob/main/README.md
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >
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