Re: [art] [core] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of draft-ietf-core-problem-details-05
Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> Tue, 05 July 2022 08:50 UTC
Return-Path: <cabo@tzi.org>
X-Original-To: art@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: art@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8986C15C15F; Tue, 5 Jul 2022 01:50:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.909
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LvCi1LwaVOoq; Tue, 5 Jul 2022 01:50:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.15]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CC18C15C15E; Tue, 5 Jul 2022 01:50:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089ad4f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.173.79]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Lcbwt4zKdzDCfn; Tue, 5 Jul 2022 10:50:38 +0200 (CEST)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\))
From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
In-Reply-To: <ae1d0248-c87d-862f-921e-a2284af288ba@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2022 10:50:38 +0200
Cc: Francesca Palombini <francesca.palombini=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Thomas Fossati <Thomas.Fossati@arm.com>, "core@ietf.org WG" <core@ietf.org>, Applications and Real-Time Area Discussion <art@ietf.org>, "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-core-problem-details.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-core-problem-details.all@ietf.org>
X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 678703838.160284-ee0f6bd8ceb0ff538d633a561977a051
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <4DBFA791-4E6E-4AE4-8561-7413C5B6DBB4@tzi.org>
References: <165511479760.19573.12671700576299137749@ietfa.amsl.com> <63D13796-758D-469B-AFA8-3050C9F87819@tzi.org> <AS1PR07MB86169230F0D43E82CB2BCA1698AC9@AS1PR07MB8616.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <CAObGJnO7kdhO6tzLx2GZH3FVj2iedCU=fWH-w608OAStMMGeLA@mail.gmail.com> <10B6E8EC0FCAFB668F04845E@PSB> <CAObGJnOqMAmu32stN11NoTAfvNhXvmGSjscpk8cS5AO6iY4k0Q@mail.gmail.com> <B9C8C465-FE6A-49A6-BA36-EB5756F75463@tzi.org> <AS1PR07MB8616E70E8C511B024183638698BA9@AS1PR07MB8616.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <DB9PR08MB6524B5E1658A5C75692FD98E9CBD9@DB9PR08MB6524.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com> <AS1PR07MB8616FC72CCA68AAC9F0A979898BE9@AS1PR07MB8616.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <5D48F562-8F48-40EF-8C5A-E0A3EF2AFF74@tzi.org> <ae1d0248-c87d-862f-921e-a2284af288ba@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
To: "\"Martin J. Dürst\"" <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/art/F6UXPiuTFyXQQmLpQXEoqeiKrbs>
Subject: Re: [art] [core] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of draft-ietf-core-problem-details-05
X-BeenThere: art@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Applications and Real-Time Area Discussion <art.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/art>, <mailto:art-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/art/>
List-Post: <mailto:art@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:art-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/art>, <mailto:art-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2022 08:50:46 -0000
This discussion is completely out of hand now. None of the discussion items being discussed below are properly addressed by the concise problem details document. If you want to change the way CBOR tags are registered, please write a draft and submit it to the CBOR WG. In Germany we have articles in the constitution that cannot be changed, even with a qualified majority. You seem to want to introduce such an article to an RFC, and that is unprecedented. If the IETF decides to deprecate Tag 38, that is the decision of the IETF. Of course it would not be bright to do this if there isn’t a clear replacement in sight. But writing text into this specification that the specification cannot be deprecated is the wrong way to go about this. Shouldn’t we add that text to TCP, too? Or anything else that we think is a great idea at the time of approving the document? Tag 35 is a good example because this is a tag that has turned out to be problematic, not providing the level of interoperability in practice that we thought it would in 2013. So we didn’t want to include it in RFC 8949, which is an Internet Standard (which is supposed to have interoperability throughout). But we didn’t want to “unregister” it either (shades of port 465). Tags are registered in the CBOR tags registry under “specification required”; we do have a stable specification in RFC 7049; so we were all set. If Tag 38 ever gets the same status that Tag 35 has, we have a good way to handle that. Do I think this is likely? Absolutely not. Should we try to cut off that possibility by unprecedented “this cannot be changed” text (which we can always ignore anyway)? No. Grüße, Carsten
- [art] Artart last call review of draft-ietf-core-… Harald Alvestrand via Datatracker
- Re: [art] Artart last call review of draft-ietf-c… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] Artart last call review of draft-ietf-c… Francesca Palombini
- Re: [art] Artart last call review of draft-ietf-c… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [art] Artart last call review of draft-ietf-c… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [art] Artart last call review of draft-ietf-c… Ira McDonald
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … Ira McDonald
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] Artart last call review of draft-ietf-c… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … Ira McDonald
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … John C Klensin
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … tom petch
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … tom petch
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … Ira McDonald
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … tom petch
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … John C Klensin
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … John C Klensin
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … John C Klensin
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … tom petch
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [art] Artart last call review of draft-ietf-c… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [art] Artart last call review of draft-ietf-c… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … John C Klensin
- Re: [art] Artart last call review of draft-ietf-c… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] Artart last call review of draft-ietf-c… Carsten Bormann
- [art] Thank you! -- Re: [core] Artart last call r… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] Thank you! -- Re: [core] Artart last ca… Francesca Palombini
- Re: [art] Artart last call review of draft-ietf-c… Martin J. Dürst
- [art] Language tags and YANG Francesca Palombini
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] [core] Artart last call review of draft… Thomas Fossati
- [art] Call for comments on draft-ietf-core-proble… Francesca Palombini
- Re: [art] Call for comments on draft-ietf-core-pr… Marco Tiloca
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] [core] Artart last call rev… John C Klensin
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] [core] Artart last call rev… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] [core] Artart last call rev… John C Klensin
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call review of … Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [art] [core] Call for comments on draft-ietf-… Ari Keränen
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] [core] Artart last call rev… Thomas Fossati
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] [core] Artart last call rev… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] Language tags and YANG tom petch
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Language tags and YANG Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Call for comments on draft-… tom petch
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Call for comments on draft-… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] [core] Artart last call rev… Francesca Palombini
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Call for comments on draft-… Francesca Palombini
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] [core] Artart last call rev… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] [core] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Call for comments on draft-… Randy Presuhn
- Re: [art] [core] [Last-Call] Call for comments on… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Call for comments on draft-… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Language tags and YANG Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Call for comments on draft-… tom petch
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Language tags and YANG tom petch
- Re: [art] [Last-Call] Call for comments on draft-… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] [core] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… Thomas Fossati
- Re: [art] [core] Call for comments on draft-ietf-… Hubert Przybysz
- Re: [art] [core] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… Francesca Palombini
- Re: [art] [core] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] [core] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [art] [core] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] [core] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] [core] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… Martin J. Dürst
- [art] Obsoletes Re: [core] [Last-Call] Artart las… tom petch
- Re: [art] Call for comments on draft-ietf-core-pr… Francesca Palombini
- Re: [art] Obsoletes Re: [core] [Last-Call] Artart… John C Klensin
- Re: [art] Obsoletes Re: [core] [Last-Call] Artart… Scott O. Bradner
- Re: [art] Obsoletes Re: [core] [Last-Call] Artart… tom petch
- Re: [art] Obsoletes Re: [core] [Last-Call] Artart… Carsten Bormann