Re: [Asrg] Consensus Call - submission via posting (was Re: Iteration #3)

"Chris Lewis" <clewis@nortel.com> Mon, 08 February 2010 18:04 UTC

Return-Path: <CLEWIS@nortel.com>
X-Original-To: asrg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: asrg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 856FE3A6991 for <asrg@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 10:04:28 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.528
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.528 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.071, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hSvfLjh3FKGX for <asrg@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 10:04:27 -0800 (PST)
Received: from zrtps0kp.nortel.com (zrtps0kp.nortel.com [47.140.192.56]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 856E83A6926 for <asrg@irtf.org>; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 10:04:27 -0800 (PST)
Received: from zrtphxs1.corp.nortel.com (casmtp.ca.nortel.com [47.140.202.46]) by zrtps0kp.nortel.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id o18I5Pr16295 for <asrg@irtf.org>; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:05:25 GMT
Received: from zrtphx5h0.corp.nortel.com ([47.140.202.65]) by zrtphxs1.corp.nortel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 8 Feb 2010 13:05:24 -0500
Received: from [47.130.64.86] (47.130.64.86) by zrtphx5h0.corp.nortel.com (47.140.202.65) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.340.0; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 13:05:24 -0500
Message-ID: <4B705252.80405@nortel.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:05:06 -0500
From: Chris Lewis <clewis@nortel.com>
Organization: Nortel
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.23) Gecko/20090812 Lightning/0.9 Thunderbird/2.0.0.23 Mnenhy/0.7.6.666
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Anti-Spam Research Group - IRTF <asrg@irtf.org>
References: <4B6C6D35.1050101@nortel.com> <4B6DAD0C.3020109@nortel.com> <4B6DB6D1.5050805@dcrocker.net> <201002081735.39674.ar-asrg@acrconsulting.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <201002081735.39674.ar-asrg@acrconsulting.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Feb 2010 18:05:24.0926 (UTC) FILETIME=[499B95E0:01CAA8E9]
Subject: Re: [Asrg] Consensus Call - submission via posting (was Re: Iteration #3)
X-BeenThere: asrg@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Anti-Spam Research Group - IRTF <asrg@irtf.org>
List-Id: Anti-Spam Research Group - IRTF <asrg.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg>, <mailto:asrg-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.irtf.org/mail-archive/web/asrg>
List-Post: <mailto:asrg@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:asrg-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg>, <mailto:asrg-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:04:28 -0000

Andrew Richards wrote:

> What bugs me about [1] is that the whole message is being re-sent, but we 
> seem to have established that the only thing a spam button will be saying 
> is "This is spam/unwanted", so sending a report including the original 
> email for basically a single bit of information seems excessive.

In general, it isn't a "single bit of information", especially if you 
consider that this mechanism will undoubtably used to feed outsourced 
handlers who don't see your inbound mailstream at all.

Think SpamCop for example.

I'm not sure why "exessive [volume]" is a particular concern.  For the 
most part complaints are relatively rare, and this is only on that 
fraction that doesn't already get zapped by the filters. We're 
exceptional in the former (getting as much as 10-20% of all spam getting 
past the filters being reported as full forwards), but nobody has ever 
noticed the flow operationally.

If you posit 100% "hit the TiS button", 100% spam, and _no_ filtering 
whatsoever, your outgoing from the user equals your incoming to the 
user.  But if you're in a situation like that, one wonders why you have 
mail service or users at all.