Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? Support only EUI-64interfaces?
Alexandru Petrescu <alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com> Wed, 04 August 2010 14:23 UTC
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Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 16:23:36 +0200
From: Alexandru Petrescu <alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? Support only EUI-64interfaces?
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Le 04/08/2010 15:27, Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano a écrit : > Hi Alex, > > On Mon, 2010-08-02 at 21:37 +0200, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >> Le 02/08/2010 18:55, Ulrich Herberg a écrit : >>> Teco, >>> >>> On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 3:56 PM, Teco Boot<teco@inf-net.nl> wrote: >>>> Fred, >>>> >>>> Do you mean DHCP relay can be used on a node, that request an >>>> address for itself? >>> >>> I have tried that a while ago. It works with some limitations (see >>> below). >>> >>>> >>>> I think it could work this way: 1) Node queries with link-local to >>>> All_DHCP_Relay_Agents_and_Servers. 2a) Node acts as also relay and >>>> queries with ULA (site-local) to All_DHCP_Servers. >>> >>> Do you mean that a node is DHCP client and relay in the same time? >>> That is not possible according to RFC3315, which says (i) in section >>> 15.13 "clients MUST discard any received Relay-forward messages" and >>> (ii) section 15.3 "servers and relay agents MUST discard any >>> received Advertise messages". >> >> Ah! This is seem to contradict something in MEXT context where >> draft-ietf-mext-nemo-pd-05 proposes "This relay agent function is >> co-located in the MR with the DHCPv6 client function (see Figure 2)." > > I don't think it contradicts it. As Fred mentioned in his e-mail: > "client function would never see a Relay-forward, because that is > generated by the relay function and sent to either the unicast address > of a server or All-DHCP-Servers multicast." I guess that can be understood so, provided there being two DHCP processes: one Relay and one Client. Alex > > Thanks, > > Carlos > >> >>> Also, the relay would need to have a direct unicast connection to the >>> central node or use other relaying mechanisms such as SMF (as you >>> mentioned below), because multiple relaying is not really feasible in >>> DHCPv6 itself: Relaying uses encapsulation, so packets would be >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> Clarification: yes, relaying implies encapsulation when Relay relays to >> another Relay, but when Relay to Server - it's non-encapsualted. >> >>> encapsulated at every hop, quickly increasing overhead. And I also >>> don't think that DHCP relaying allows duplicate packet detection. >> >> Duplicate packet detection? What is it for? >> >> Alex >> >>>> 2b) If node is provisioned with DHCP server unicast address, it >>>> could use that instead of All_DHCP_Servers. >>> >>> Sure, that is possible if a unicast routing protocol is used. >>> >>>> I think this is in line with your RFC 5558. >>>> >>>> Drawback of 1: it can result in high number of relayed DHCP >>>> packets, in case of many neighbors. >>> >>> True. >>> >>>> Another drawback of 1: there is a timeout delay when there is no >>>> relay or server at one hop. >>> >>> But I guess this timeout can be set dynamically? >>> >>>> >>>> For 2a: the network needs multicast support. Could be SMF. >>> >>> Yes, that could be a possibility. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> For both 2a and 2b: a temporally used unicast address must be >>>> routable. So this DHCP mechanism can only be used as a second >>>> step, moving from the self-generated address to a centrally >>>> managed address. >>> >>> Yes, that seems possible (but I have to re-read the DHCPv6 RFC after >>> my vacations ;-) >>> >>> Ulrich >>> >>>> >>>> Teco >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Op 30 jul 2010, om 17:40 heeft Templin, Fred L het volgende >>>> geschreven: >>>> >>>>> Teco, >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: autoconf-bounces@ietf.org >>>>>> [mailto:autoconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Teco Boot >>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 4:58 AM To: autoconf@ietf.org >>>>>> autoconf@ietf.org Subject: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without >>>>>> link-local? Support only EUI-64interfaces? >>>>>> >>>>>> RFC3315: ... The client MUST use a link-local address >>>>>> assigned to the interface for which it is requesting >>>>>> configuration information as the source address in the header >>>>>> of the IP datagram. >>>>>> >>>>>> Question: can we get around a MUST in a standards track RFC? I >>>>>> don't think so. >>>>> >>>>> If the MANET router only behaves as a client on an internal link >>>>> (e.g., a loopback) but behaves as a relay on its MANET >>>>> interfaces, then link-locals need not be exposed for DHCPv6 >>>>> purposes. There are other reasons why link-locals might need to >>>>> be considered for MANETs, but I'm not sure this is one of them. >>>>> >>>>> Fred fred.l.templin@boeing.com >>>>> >>>>>> The to be posted proposed text for to be RFC5889 would say >>>>>> that if link-locals are used, there are potential problems >>>>>> when using other than modified EUI-64 IIDs, and therefore must >>>>>> be based on modified EUI-64 IIDs. >>>>>> >>>>>> Second question, on first item in charter: do we limit ourself >>>>>> to MANET routers that has modified EUI-64 link-locals? I >>>>>> think: better think twice. >>>>>> >>>>>> Opinions? >>>>>> >>>>>> Teco. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ Autoconf >>>>>> mailing list Autoconf@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/autoconf >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ Autoconf mailing >>>> list Autoconf@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/autoconf >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ Autoconf mailing list >>> Autoconf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/autoconf >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Autoconf mailing list >> Autoconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/autoconf >
- [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? Suppo… Teco Boot
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Teco Boot
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Teco Boot
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Teco Boot
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Teco Boot
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Ulrich Herberg
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Ulrich Herberg
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Teco Boot
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Ulrich Herberg
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Henning Rogge
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Ulrich Herberg
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Rogge Henning
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Teco Boot
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Teco Boot
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Henning Rogge
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Teco Boot
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Joe Macker