Re: [Bimi] (non)desire for bimi

Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net> Thu, 14 February 2019 18:06 UTC

Return-Path: <dhc@dcrocker.net>
X-Original-To: bimi@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: bimi@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 292AE124BAA for <bimi@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:06:37 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.7
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=dcrocker.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q4zmGcyF7sMI for <bimi@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:06:35 -0800 (PST)
Received: from simon.songbird.com (simon.songbird.com [72.52.113.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B23031200ED for <bimi@ietf.org>; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:06:35 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.1.168] (76-218-8-128.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.8.128]) (authenticated bits=0) by simon.songbird.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4.1ubuntu1.1) with ESMTP id x1EI7vq8019793 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:07:57 -0800
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dcrocker.net; s=default; t=1550167678; bh=b8pDxO+GgD5KQNUaqYveryIRXeniBsd7aT613pqFQCs=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:Reply-To:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=lzWmGVJQE0bloVju8ZGPzIN7iHZPlQNTMEB3EFC2atsH7JYZXouDYEEHswet9ODCA fcV0eUz+Zyejs6Fnd5LTKkEjwFbH+cnhAynAaxn/582umLy71eOBVDmXZWpQKX6Ise fjwAhSWQX8PXIYoqgEg+JmmCM2fgX/vFZAXwGf28=
To: John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>, bimi@ietf.org
Cc: tzink@terryzink.com
References: <20190214175243.950C2200E509D1@ary.qy>
Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net
From: Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net>
Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking
Message-ID: <aac6ca77-a8f7-7628-fc0d-18ab616659f2@dcrocker.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:06:27 -0800
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <20190214175243.950C2200E509D1@ary.qy>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bimi/lnH56AyOGS-0qhrDfw6NG1qADiw>
Subject: Re: [Bimi] (non)desire for bimi
X-BeenThere: bimi@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Brand Indicators for Message Identification <bimi.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/bimi>, <mailto:bimi-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/bimi/>
List-Post: <mailto:bimi@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bimi-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bimi>, <mailto:bimi-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 18:06:37 -0000

On 2/14/2019 9:52 AM, John Levine wrote:
> In article <BL0PR11MB3107712FFFD2D92E911B909DA9670@BL0PR11MB3107.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> you write:
>> How does this not show demand? Isn't this an example of web mail providers wanting to enhance the user
>> experience, and companies happily obliging, and me as a user being pleased?
> 
> I think you're extrapolating from a point.  To extrapolate from
> another point, I find all those blinky things extremely annoying and
> specifically choose mail software that does not show them.


Indeed.

      1. An axiom in usability research is to not treat developers or 
researchers as subjects (unless they really are the target audience.) 
In terms of cognitive detail and usage style, such folk differ 
substantially from the general user population.

      2. Any general claim about users in general needs to have some 
sort of statistical basis that gives credence to that generalization.

Simply put, you or I or John do not matter in this calculus.  We are the 
essence of a biased sample...




-- 
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net