Re: [Cacao] [EXT] Re: [EXT] RE: Charter

Amelia Andersdotter <amelia@article19.org> Tue, 18 June 2019 21:28 UTC

Return-Path: <amelia@article19.org>
X-Original-To: cacao@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: cacao@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD37C12029C for <cacao@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:28:44 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a8H6fKXjFiwv for <cacao@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:28:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smarthost1.greenhost.nl (smarthost1.greenhost.nl [195.190.28.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CFD412001B for <cacao@ietf.org>; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:28:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp.greenhost.nl ([213.108.110.112]) by smarthost1.greenhost.nl with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from <amelia@article19.org>) id 1hdLeg-0005nY-5t; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 23:28:38 +0200
To: Bret Jordan <jordan.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: cacao@ietf.org
References: <BYAPR16MB30133C3DAF3CF2060CE4B565EDEA0@BYAPR16MB3013.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EAA890F@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <BYAPR16MB30137AC9C00633E80C7C8D65EDEA0@BYAPR16MB3013.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <779CCF55-FABB-4BA1-9D84-1D9761A32944@tzi.org> <BYAPR16MB30139D44233E0256099264DCEDEA0@BYAPR16MB3013.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <25088b69-1225-3f3c-b0e2-38e25f1f48fb@article19.org> <A7038D6C-C1C3-4B6A-B928-AC87F7A87AFC@gmail.com>
From: Amelia Andersdotter <amelia@article19.org>
Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
Autocrypt: addr=amelia@article19.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFjWlnsBEAC+jUN+LJE+mmxEL8lHSrvg47xSBMb9GdtH1Jr8tRSxXiO6R5E+FydsfqkL sjO0dI3x/VnNBi/kgPFFWiAzDEwGTiR/C9b/Muo+xrY+it6e49N56LTPGezrY2dy5yo6VcLl 7UwGz3fIWiNIj7dvuoPMBoO1uacF073E+dqDM5CmNh6o+OrHW8zhUlC9hKgXCq+8XpZJw90H un1zsHF0sRDiurjfYaCcbdAGK9+th9378ed1ZvLVo5uBVQXdydl3eJkNCOELq7VOS7oxSliA uX5/nj9A4LjeeYXgNbwGfKrMjlffP0FcAcgfzg9seqDd1DEk9EVaUMTr32fbWOQHjinXSC7r Lw4xaNfoBebIe1M6z16Xg7+bXXCTdmJYcL9ugmkvT6tGnR12Pfoca1oBwXPvA0VIRi86kCSU D9qvZ3Vl07MKD2hsvFkGZJOQfEaYv5QLpCWv6RCjfDNC05IyMeSW4H18Fr/BoHX8FXHV3+9H LsbJQ/Zrofd/Cm+TKEmXLAtYc7iXvzV+mw3/u0VYqjEy/CRYa62Ah0NNNVIuswfRVIfx3UZo jX4y8j2Kh0jtUV5A4GGf8H3SzQ/cB0I7wTRHU9mCPVCtH6M26nPumL4Zr4D6uGnAmPf9xnlX lokOn2Qxf/mBldsL41PDbEpYhZvvn5kJ/Z9Qh7Fks/hfTbbJowARAQABtEFBbWVsaWEgQW5k ZXJzZG90dGVyIChUZWNobmljYWwgY29uc3VsdGFudCkgPGFtZWxpYUBhcnRpY2xlMTkub3Jn PokCVAQTAQgAPhYhBD1dtsq4UrmIBVpqb/7xwpS06AtVBQJZbJ97AhsjBQkJZgGABQsJCAcC BhUICQoLAgQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEP7xwpS06AtVgrcQAJYg+mhDhui+9xNb9PuRJbelOI7J WlCjSycfaMi+rTJ9FjVKYIE9aug2VV486BZaeqMoOh5wjl61oeRTDHYG6HvhK4w8O/BVPsL0 8MEfYfpFevZmBsInEJypg0r7VJ/SeO9UyaFKUffgvLyiYwk7zJIgx5dHF5Vch0kTtRNc/Wbe 9MGfhl//1Ztl8GjGqzra7MwzaO12ctTDo7LIvXGqrpYm5g7+hRv3+KYVOJvlh4T4deAzNlX1 F/jj4cOYvJJxP2OMPZxoleQZSf63h0hWnKlQWX3UiUZY/M296V6niGDCQHX1q7oz9YWxwUun mNPltaPnTdvE51N98Q+hhrw39XowN0vYhfphaFNrf/crNKTB5Iqx62aAzYwqXQKlh6EtWAri 2rVB9vXxPv+1eL9t/Kga2JyCjmJVtYJxlZWceyW3EKjK+E7qjr1LHDFjV8ZbvN7QRTdjsuzR Ggz3ECba80Ij2/tASE8IXpT/Zb68NeSx3/nDXkIG13inSvGy8yNovzEADXsGO16GSx5Rool/ ECFhTYksMyM73FkvcpvXo6J+neyGEVKDx1Oy213KgTrAOrA+p2hMI2nX9sI5tvWms8XspwQ5 wtmzDribnZNQzpdrb45Chv56LjrKVer9tmraRq8Qe3mL6jXhMPWLim1OeAx6m3qBzKr3QxuG PdADCLHsuQINBFjWlnsBEADFjusaTo9W8VeWluCK/oJqyyyF1wMvou0ldfuoOpUZrOqsY67T M7yBqsv5COPVgAV+xp+axor5oHWxibd283w0Ok4dK6tvtNGwUqyDRlHtQ92DG/u4Tg5eOwrH NUn73/rfeBD9KhKAXcNKKPoccLgR8oQTXpO7eRo+0NI52pXQ6LdZ0wddYeTcHglsNKN1TK+C yYS7xfGolsZXXoBOKcyhfj/ckPFVIHWpGpEtcYWTZWvXgLprzHvpKzkzNyBwejaXE+bqCT2d Rl3omI/e2t3Vq33hFUUSAdxrFF29vMX/YsSnYqsFOIoayna+TRsDFAfZvbvHBOMckeJzvA8y Bdadw7CM08Uw8wqH7n9BA3oq//QpZJekPfrc2E9nM9H0d51T0uStLMbYDWdwxvfPA3p9z8L9 1vobt8bM/Jbhl9h+X2Yq9oBCiTI7b2izYd9FVG4BwBIdeh3bh9R9HExgRjF3XQ6uafT3pcVO PASdv9FRUYH1Va7QWQifoha0B7UXKx1OpX1Z6XR2NQ9KN2MvlwvBKdHtm6tBzUIFzW6D8vUO xiYKBA4fppJt/LJF4jsaCEyI/CVQnkC0yL5DKFOdigxTipwEL9Uc6r7VfR5OAGFd6vzuJFy+ j+/WhzaVT1oVYp6eQXh0bBtqqH2Mq9sAMnIjvaNYIKiQKgMa1Pa3OWQbQQARAQABiQI8BBgB CAAmFiEEPV22yrhSuYgFWmpv/vHClLToC1UFAljWlnsCGwwFCQlmAYAACgkQ/vHClLToC1Xn Rw//W4lzE8FddceKXGRwO/T1u4uzH9EjPCj+3/eHCrLI+h1m7QPyH1DrFAtZBoA6UoaF0+vI AJXM9/HI1FZ09EUdJr5X/+YREErFom4DbE1FK8fpK1/Hw2zI+7Xa8bVkmYrKhMGhi1Gq6Dtk sn/H4USdJL53ZPt10SVNK7H3w93Yp1GC4+0zWjfrsKfsHYZZr2SZyb5/gZlngfgaqiQLhIcP YmiU1GQi9QWkGxWRxk0YQXBwhekewvgltATxlRSCwguAi4uck9fAct9GGdpsshSOgAb9YIAn EV3EqaGnf0PknXp3vNHAZWrfM+RyuNdm2L5TjDU0rIrvyqGP3pR33cREGOAil5Sz2uFArmws Pt8VffbEXlf7qZqRBKaYeKt0qnxKMx1+e1JilVsfb8qtnAWAFDyR0HMlVj/dvGAmq/auPSOA UWRSnDRyT6rv/vXxrbkL4uxWax46qdpDhR15mS5MTng6b5b3Uox7xlveo/Sx71AdNf4goPvB /ntv0DiMuh+fmLGk3zrxs4Xd30Sx+qQwVaXR5xc5rgnF81wvfmuAOb2eP9mpD6DoabkpxC8f Lk17AK7Q1ZTgcZ+8XLRFnavdPrwCa9RU0BF53lJMSTPzyBcMwZ4sqA6Z5IRFVt7rEbSeeD8R Eiawo+FvVt9j0fKdNEBeaJ3WY5hlhNPcUXr4q1U=
Organization: ARTICLE19
Message-ID: <d9cfec23-eb22-f33d-7620-c7a29249484f@article19.org>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 23:28:36 +0200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <A7038D6C-C1C3-4B6A-B928-AC87F7A87AFC@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US-large
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Virus-Scanned: by clamav at smarthost1.samage.net
X-Scan-Signature: 92147cc26b2e14e0b1010f762ef587ae
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cacao/JWdeBLpM450VlXbTMtHv2ISucXE>
Subject: Re: [Cacao] [EXT] Re: [EXT] RE: Charter
X-BeenThere: cacao@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Collaborative Automated Course of Action Operations <cacao.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/cacao>, <mailto:cacao-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/cacao/>
List-Post: <mailto:cacao@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:cacao-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cacao>, <mailto:cacao-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 21:28:45 -0000

On 2019-06-18 16:30, Bret Jordan wrote:
> Amelia,
>
> That is an option.  Just so you know, Google Docs does not require
> anything other than a web browser.  If you go this url, just like an
> ether pad, you will see the document and suggestions and comments. 
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fTN0uilpBVx6CwaGxj8SBKG4PqG7DceInU9RgLz9pRo/edit#heading=h.wh8etuclav2g

it's true, i can open it. just some people said they couldn't.

best regards,

amelia


>
> Thanks,
> Bret
> PGP Fingerprint: 63B4 FC53 680A 6B7D 1447  F2C0 74F8 ACAE 7415 0050
> "Without cryptography vihv vivc ce xhrnrw, however, the only thing
> that can not be unscrambled is an egg."
>
>> On Jun 18, 2019, at 4:26 PM, Amelia Andersdotter
>> <amelia@article19.org <mailto:amelia@article19.org>> wrote:
>>
>> On 2019-06-18 16:05, Bret Jordan wrote:
>>>
>>> Carsten,
>>>
>>>
>>> I appreciate your comments. However, from our experience, with a
>>> large group of people that are in both camps, editing specs in Google
>>> docs proves to be the easiest solution for all. So it is not about
>>> preferring one group over another.  It is about what proves to be the
>>> easiest and fastest to enable as many people as possible to get work
>>> done quickly and efficiently. 
>>>
>>>
>> How about making it temporarily available on some form of etherpad? They
>> are normally accessible to everyone and rely only on browser functions.
>>
>>
>> best regards,
>>
>> amelia
>>
>>
>>> Bret
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org <mailto:cabo@tzi.org>>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 18, 2019 7:41:20 AM
>>> *To:* Bret Jordan
>>> *Cc:* mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
>>> <mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>; cacao@ietf.org
>>> <mailto:cacao@ietf.org>
>>> *Subject:* [EXT] Re: [Cacao] [EXT] RE: Charter
>>>  
>>> On Jun 18, 2019, at 14:24, Bret Jordan
>>> <Bret_Jordan=40symantec.com@dmarc.ietf.org
>>> <mailto:Bret_Jordan=40symantec.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Using Github will prevent people from helping, or will limit people
>>> to only those that understand how to use Github and have access to
>>> Github.  Resolving comments and suggestions via Github is
>>> significantly harder than Google Docs.
>>>
>>> My comment here is kind of off-topic, but…
>>> The statement you are making here is that one group of contributors
>>> (those that can stand collaborating on a document with the limited
>>> means Google Docs) is more important than another group of
>>> contributors (those that are used to software development workflows). 
>>> While that may very well be, I think it is important to make decisions
>>> like this explicitly.
>>> (I personally believe that this effort could benefit from strong
>>> participation by people who write code.)
>>>
>>> Grüße, Carsten
>>>
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Amelia Andersdotter
>> Technical Consultant, Digital Programme
>> Chair, RCM TIG, IEEE 802.11
>>
>> ARTICLE19
>> www.article19.org <http://www.article19.org>
>>
>> PGP: 3D5D B6CA B852 B988 055A 6A6F FEF1 C294 B4E8 0B55
>>
>> -- 
>> Cacao mailing list
>> Cacao@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cacao
>

-- 
Amelia Andersdotter
Technical Consultant, Digital Programme
Chair, RCM TIG, IEEE 802.11

ARTICLE19
www.article19.org

PGP: 3D5D B6CA B852 B988 055A 6A6F FEF1 C294 B4E8 0B55