Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to describe pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
"Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)" <cyril.margaria@nsn.com> Fri, 15 July 2011 14:32 UTC
Return-Path: <cyril.margaria@nsn.com>
X-Original-To: ccamp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ccamp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2AD221F86B3 for <ccamp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 07:32:30 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.556
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.556 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.043, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8A+bdjMIhV1u for <ccamp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 07:32:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53AEF21F8451 for <ccamp@ietf.org>; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 07:32:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p6FEWLpu028774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 15 Jul 2011 16:32:21 +0200
Received: from demuexc025.nsn-intra.net (demuexc025.nsn-intra.net [10.159.32.12]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p6FEWKqr026836; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 16:32:21 +0200
Received: from DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.23]) by demuexc025.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 15 Jul 2011 16:32:18 +0200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 16:32:16 +0200
Message-ID: <D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF2029BB2AC@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net>
In-Reply-To: <4E2046FB.5050201@grotto-networking.com>
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to describe pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
Thread-Index: AcxC9vtyRgVrFHk5RWa2sOdEDJbUjAAADakA
References: <CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129673243E@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com><7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E170C62F931@DFWEML501-MBX.china.huawei.com><D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF202806DEE@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net><7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E170C62FA55@DFWEML501-MBX.china.huawei.com><4DFB7ED7.5040509@orange-ftgroup.com><4DFB947B.1050409@grotto-networking.com><CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129681EAC9@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com><7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E1718137E45@dfweml502-mbx.china.huawei.com><4E09EBCF.2020207@labn.net><CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C05815212968DFD7A@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com><4E1324A9.4080502@grotto-networking.com><D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF20293EAF8@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net><4E172D33.4000800@grotto-networking.com><CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129694D325@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <4E1DFB6D.6040601@grotto-networking.co! m> <D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF2029BA9CF@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.n! ! et> <4E 2046FB.5050201@grotto-networking.com>
From: "Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)" <cyril.margaria@nsn.com>
To: ext Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jul 2011 14:32:18.0287 (UTC) FILETIME=[FFCECFF0:01CC42FB]
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to describe pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group <ccamp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ccamp>, <mailto:ccamp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ccamp>
List-Post: <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ccamp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp>, <mailto:ccamp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 14:32:31 -0000
Hi Greg, Please see clarification inline > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com] > Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 3:56 PM > To: Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich) > Cc: ccamp@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to describe > pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward) > > Hi Cyril, see comments below. > Greg > On 7/14/2011 12:48 AM, Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > > > > > There is one thing that really bother me is to have resource block > IDs > > with 16 bits With few motivation and without any definition in the > > WG-drafts if they are stable or not. > --> This allows for 65,536 resources per node. I'm not sure what you > mean by "stable". The assignments of resource block ID's to resources > is provisioned by the equipment. This assignment would be relatively > "static", i.e., would not change with LSP creation or removal. I mean stable across control plane restart and configuration change. > > The only statement I have seen is : > > "The RB identifier represents the ID of the resource block which is a > > 16 bit integer." > > > > I would expect a 32 bit stable ID that match existing IDs assignments > > in nodes. > Which ID's in nodes? Link IDs can take three different forms IPv4, > IPv6 and link local identifiers per GMPLS/MPLS standards. I mean unnumbered interface IDs. Node usually assign interface ids to their different ports (being internal or external), this assignment tend to be also meaningful for the management system and are usually based on 32 bit ids. > > If a 32 bit ID is used the connectivity matrix as defined in general > > constraint can be used. > --> The connectivity matrix doesn't work with IDs of any kind. It works > with "Link Sets". I will rephrase then : Using a 32 bit unnumbered interface identifiers would allow the connectivity matrix as defined in general constraint to be used. > > Your opinion is that it should be a > > separate TLV in the WSON information, My opinion is that it could go > > in the general node connectivity, because it's part of the node > > connectivity. In the last couple of mail this did not change, I would > > be interested to hear other people opinions. > > > > Coming back to draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode resource block ids, > > this > > 16 ID was introduced in draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-01 (March > > 2009), I have looked in the mailing list (only the web interface) and > > I did not see any justification nor discussion on that topic. I may > > have missed something, Could you indicate : > > - should those ID be stable or not? > --> What do you mean by stable? --> stable across control plane restart and configuration change (adding new HW) > > - What is the motivation behind those 16 bit IDs? > --> Saves space; 65,536 resource block in a switch seems like plenty. --> This has the inconvenient to add another assignment space in the node, using unnumbered interface id is far more convenient and generic : if you want also to model the 3R construct as a multi-layer (ML) (OCH/ODU) matrix, then you will tend to address the 3R using unnumbered (or numbered) interface id. In general once you have an heuristic to compute a connectivity matrix in general using another space for some element is not convenient. > > - What is the problem having 32 bit node unique ids? > --> Uses more space; Doesn't solve any problems that we know of. Its not convenient if you go in the direction of ML representation the oeo ingress/egress port might become a link. BR > > > > > > Best Regards > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On > >> Behalf Of ext Greg Bernstein > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 10:09 PM > >> To: ccamp@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to > describe > >> pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward) > >> > >> Hi Pierre, as previously stated: > >> > >> This change mixes information from "general constraints" with "wson > >> specific constraints" and hence goes against the decision made by > the > >> CCAMP WG at the March 2009 San Francisco IETF. This proposed change > >> does not result in any space savings and results in an undesirable > >> mixing of separate concepts. All current WSON drafts include > >> separation of relatively "static" from more "dynamic" information, > >> hence this change is unnecessary. Hence you can take it off the > table. > >> > >> Best Regards > >> Greg > >> > >> > >> On 7/13/2011 8:44 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote: > >>> Hi Greg and CCAMPer's, > >>> > >>> As in the preceding mail which summarized the 3 main changes > > proposed > >>> by draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo, become too big to be easily > > read > >> through, I've been splitting the 3 points in 3 different threads, > >> this one deals with change 2: > >>> Use of the connectivity matrix defined inside the node entity in > >> order to describe connectivity constraints between node-external > >> links and the resource pools. > >>> MOTIVATION: a/ to gather static information inside node entity (for > >>> OSPF-TE inside a LSA never flooded upon LSP updates). b/ to limit > > the > >>> number of connectivity representations introduced by current > >>> extensions (draft-ietf-rwa-info proposes similar TLVs in different > >>> LSAs) > >>> > >>> Best Regards, > >>> > >>> Pierre > >>> > >>> [SNIP] > >>> > >>>> -snip- > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> CCAMP mailing list > >>> CCAMP@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > >>> > >>> > >> > >> -- > >> =================================================== > >> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> CCAMP mailing list > >> CCAMP@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > > > > -- > =================================================== > Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 >
- [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notification for draft-pe… PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE)
- Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notification for draf… Greg Bernstein
- [CCAMP] Review of draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oe… Greg Bernstein
- Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notification fordraft… Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)
- Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notification fordraft… Greg Bernstein
- Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notification fordraft… Greg Bernstein
- Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notification fordraft… Leeyoung
- Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notification fordraft… PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE)
- Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notificationfordraft-… Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)
- Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notification fordraft… Fatai Zhang
- Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notification fordraft… PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE)
- Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notification fordraft… Greg Bernstein
- Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notificationfordraft-… Leeyoung
- Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notificationfordraft-… Julien Meuric
- Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notificationfordraft-… Greg Bernstein
- Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notificationfordraft-… PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE)
- Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notificationfordraft-… Greg Bernstein
- Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notificationfordraft-… Leeyoung
- [CCAMP] Moving the WSON discussion forward (Was R… Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Moving the WSON discussion forward (W… PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE)
- Re: [CCAMP] Moving the WSON discussion forward (W… Greg Bernstein
- Re: [CCAMP] Moving the WSON discussion forward (W… Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)
- Re: [CCAMP] Moving the WSON discussion forward (W… Greg Bernstein
- [CCAMP] Change 1: Introduction of resource pool e… PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE)
- [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to d… PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE)
- [CCAMP] Change 3: Reduction of the scope of Resou… PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE)
- Re: [CCAMP] Change 1: Introduction of resource po… Leeyoung
- Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix … Greg Bernstein
- Re: [CCAMP] Change 3: Reduction of the scope of R… Greg Bernstein
- Re: [CCAMP] Change 1: Introduction of resource po… Greg Bernstein
- Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix … Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)
- Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix … Greg Bernstein
- Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix … Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)
- Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix … Greg Bernstein
- Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix … Julien Meuric
- Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix … Greg Bernstein
- Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix … Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Change 1: Introduction of resource po… PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE)
- Re: [CCAMP] Change 1: Introduction of resource po… Greg Bernstein
- Re: [CCAMP] Change 1: Introduction of resource po… t.petch
- Re: [CCAMP] Change 1: Introduction of resource po… Greg Bernstein