Re: [CFRG] Bitcoin delenda est. Was: Escalation: time commitment to fix *production* security bugs for BLS RFC v4?

[denis bider <[e-mail]>]

With all due respect, Eric: the world as we imagined it is literally
ending, and the future of liberal democracy is hanging by a thread.

There are two paths from this fork: a widespread realization of what's
going on, or 1984-style totalitarianism.

Those who want to continue business as usual are opting for 1984.

Under 1984, this group has no meaning, and its rules have no meaning,
because no human value is being realized. Only control.

On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 6:36 PM Eric Rescorla <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Denis, Phill, etc.
>
> Please take this discussion of this list. It is off-topic.
>
> -Ekr
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 4:19 PM denis bider <[e-mail]>
> wrote:
>
>> > As a human being living on a planet threatened by environmental damage
>> from CO2 emissions
>>
>> This is probably false. You believe it because you've been bombarded by
>> messages about it from manipulated media. You spend your time focusing on
>> your own work. You are doing your work honestly, so you trust that other
>> people are doing honest work as well.
>>
>> This is not the case. The anthropogenic climate change narrative is most
>> likely false. The world is not warming and does not face harm from CO2
>> emissions.
>>
>> Who are the people who want you to believe the climate change narrative?
>>
>> - The IPCC, which is an agency similar to WHO and has a similar amount of
>> credibility (this is: none). ClimateGate emails have shown the IPCC to be
>> driven by ideology and to use dishonest science in pursuit of their goals.
>> Despite claims that subsequent studies have vindicated the research, these
>> studies were as limited as possible and made minimal findings.
>>
>> - Mass media, which are basically run by intelligence agencies and have
>> consolidated into about 6 corporations. Their narratives are not driven for
>> clicks, they are driven for control. If you observed the mass media
>> reaction to 9/11 and the universal support of the subsequent Iraq invasion,
>> you may know this. If you observed the mass media reaction to the
>> fraudulent November 2020 election, you know this. If you observed the mass
>> media reaction to Covid-19, the universal support for lockdowns that
>> achieve nothing except bankrupt the middle class on purpose, pointless
>> masks that do nothing but engender obedience, and outright malicious
>> censorship of vaccine side effects - then you know this.
>>
>> If you do not know these things, then all I can tell you that Dan
>> Kaminsky died a few days ago after a Pfizer vaccination, which he got on
>> purpose to "encourage others to get vaccinated" in his tweet on March 22.
>> The mass media are reporting his death as from complications from diabetes,
>> and playing down any relationship to the vaccines. Dan Kaminsky joins other
>> notable deaths that coincidentally came after Covid vaccines, including
>> boxer Marvin Hagler, baseball legend Hank Aaron, Larry King, rapper DMX,
>> and thousands of everyday people. The vaccine deaths are common enough that
>> I know some of the dead myself. I still don't know anyone who died from
>> Covid.
>>
>> The mass media are lying to you, and this is not by accident, it is on
>> purpose. They are lying about the election, about Covid, about vaccines,
>> and about climate change.
>>
>> - China has signed up to the Paris agreement, but its obligations do not
>> start until 2030. Until then, it is free to build coal power plants, which
>> it does with gusto. As far as China is concerned, "climate change" is a
>> great way to get the West to completely tank its manufacturing, so that we
>> can be dependent on China for all production. This allows them to take over
>> the West without firing a shot, a coup which they have almost completed in
>> Australia, Canada, Europe and now also the US.
>>
>> - There is a globalist elite that rules the Western world. We have now
>> seen conclusively that they control most corporations, media and government
>> agencies, have done so for decades, and they're not elected. These people
>> have more in common ideologically with China than they do with classical
>> liberal principles of the West. With the advent of the internet and social
>> media, their control over the narrative has slipped, and they must now rule
>> openly. The US constitution is being thrown away and the people are being
>> indoctrinated to accept more of a Chinese style of rule.
>>
>> Climate change is helpful here because it leads people to believe that
>> there is this worldwide crisis that must be solved, so if we empower the
>> globalists, we sacrifice "some" liberties but it's for the benefit of
>> saving the world.
>>
>> There is in fact no such climate catastrophe. There hasn't been since
>> 1989, when the UN predicted that "whole nations will be wiped out" if
>> radical measures aren't taken by the year 2000.
>>
>> That was 21 years ago, and still the world hasn't warmed.
>>
>> If you want to educate yourself on this, you'll need a few hours.
>>
>> I recommend this very entertaining lecture by Malaysian scientist Willie
>> Soon:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zrejG-WI3U&t=221s
>>
>> Judith Curry:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4AAN0H8MRg
>>
>> Christopher Monckton:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGqcweY1a3I
>>
>> ClimateGate emails - 10 years after (PDF):
>>
>> https://www.rossmckitrick.com/uploads/4/8/0/8/4808045/climategate.10yearsafter.pdf
>>
>> ClimateGate emails (PDF):
>>
>> http://www.lavoisier.com.au/articles/greenhouse-science/climate-change/climategate-emails.pdf
>>
>> If you believe in climate change, it is your civic duty to educate
>> yourself, because this is the overarching narrative that is pushing is into
>> a worldwide dystopia based on the Chinese model.
>>
>> Our work means nothing, our lives mean nothing if the world is allowed to
>> unfold like this.
>>
>> denis
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 12:29 PM Phillip Hallam-Baker <
>> [e-mail]> wrote:
>>
>>> As a human being living on a planet threatened by environmental damage
>>> from CO2 emissions, I am strongly opposed to any IETF work to support any
>>> form of purported 'cryptocurrency' that relies on any form of 'proof of
>>> work' or 'proof of waste'.
>>>
>>> The electricity requirements of cryptocurrencies have been larger than
>>> that of entire countries. This is an experiment that it is time to stop.
>>>
>>> I am entirely serious in this position.
>>>
>>>
>>> Besides the environmental issues, there is the fact that the
>>> crypto-currency community has consistently failed to establish any
>>> effective means of preventing the endemic frauds in their systems.
>>> Fraudulent exchanges regularly steal money from their customers.
>>> Applications developed by individuals with minimal expertise are used for
>>> transfers of vast quantities of fictional cash with no effective oversight
>>> and this results in further frauds.
>>>
>>> The cryptocurrency community has a long history of misrepresenting the
>>> engagement of parties with established reputations as endorsing their
>>> 'product'. And this presents real risk to the IETF when the least
>>> objectionable use of the product in question is to evade currency controls.
>>> Cryptocurrency became popular as a means of paying for illegal drugs and
>>> has since become the enabler for ransomware.
>>>
>>> The cryptocurrency world has no shortage of people who will trash anyone
>>> criticizing their activities as 'stupid', 'uninformed', 'need to do some
>>> research'. Fine, let them sort their own messes out.
>>>
>>> IETF should take no action that risks a headline 'IETF endorses
>>> cryptocurrency'. If the ransomware, child abuse and Ponzi scheme industries
>>> have a problem as a result of a bad technology decision, we should not lift
>>> a finger to save them.
>>>
>>>
>>> The only conversations I want to have on cryptocurrencies is with
>>> government regulators looking for ways to regulate these criminal
>>> facilitation enterprises out of existence as they previously did with
>>> eGold, Gold Age and BTC's very long line of predecessors which like BTC
>>> were entirely different but completely the same.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 24, 2021 at 10:57 AM Salz, Rich <rsalz=
>>> [e-mail]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> >    There may be one way: holding implementers accountable.
>>>>
>>>> >    They relied on a draft. As such, they took a gamble. Now they lost
>>>> that
>>>>     gamble, and gambling ethics dictates that they pay up.
>>>>
>>>> Yes.  Strongly agree that this is the best approach.  This is a
>>>> *DRAFT*  It would be like implementing Rijndael and then complaining that
>>>> it has bugs and isn't AES.
>>>>
>>>> Contact the people who developed and put things into production.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> CFRG mailing list
>>>> [e-mail]
>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CFRG mailing list
>>> [e-mail]
>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CFRG mailing list
>> [e-mail]
>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg
>>
>