Re: [dane] PGP security models, was Summary of IETF LC for draft-ietf-dane-openpgpkey

"Joe Abley" <jabley@hopcount.ca> Tue, 22 September 2015 14:44 UTC

Return-Path: <jabley@hopcount.ca>
X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91AB41A8ABE for <dane@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 22 Sep 2015 07:44:20 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1] autolearn=unavailable
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GHQrtb6QeE6l for <dane@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 22 Sep 2015 07:44:19 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qk0-x235.google.com (mail-qk0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B0231A8ABD for <dane@ietf.org>; Tue, 22 Sep 2015 07:44:19 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by qkfq186 with SMTP id q186so4735047qkf.1 for <dane@ietf.org>; Tue, 22 Sep 2015 07:44:18 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hopcount.ca; s=google; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type; bh=qw+9PWZe5+XOezsrg5XGag5V9replWVlrplb0KxgzXo=; b=KfVWhWzlaY4VK+z5jq6vn0C4bbFRGEdm2xBQDjGJLp3MKG1lrMi2SHz3HfugI8VaEG OzxGOLGaRFWCccZpCH5NYcDe+GTWnB7FOY7JJZkMYtYgkoxC+c0qGr4wXwPwuY8hZzao 7r9monl/05ggntBQRC0+F+4OsSDz82AcLbV4Q=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-type; bh=qw+9PWZe5+XOezsrg5XGag5V9replWVlrplb0KxgzXo=; b=AgxteLBZx4DJB9cfobJeDws8ZBx1ahexEsKQcMsIJMnfx6zhpqqEwlwUWuDwNx3IZK EGT8GWXwBCBRmV8lqcSdEaR17/VqtnW5YHIbiwKx4iEWDnIgvQZC/1/RejLa9KMva0kW YQQrqpFjbUBXLimc2R6FVB/dsooTz9etlCiOHywLmL9O+peER7NiegmR0lQ7BXcLlrII Uwf2fPjPTF9O8IERUVtkcoLN2hHh5yoJbatteOqNT2b0wpb40kGWG92VKBjax7os6wZ3 b0usO1/id/oTN2eOt1I1icysyfciZo+Wu4siVvjB4IlOqfYVsoK+VEn2JiMmg1Y9CWHo HaUQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk0yJ9oVm/R7DoMKeX5JBlov70IaJmMSykohRJ3qZbciyhPivHae+RNZUtAPARYbndujQBB
X-Received: by 10.55.214.5 with SMTP id t5mr29761925qki.66.1442933058553; Tue, 22 Sep 2015 07:44:18 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [172.16.30.154] (nat-07-mht.dyndns.com. [216.146.45.246]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 78sm698628qhd.40.2015.09.22.07.44.17 (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 22 Sep 2015 07:44:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe Abley <jabley@hopcount.ca>
To: Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 10:44:07 -0400
Message-ID: <C01DCFF2-AB81-45A2-B4B0-087B0A994549@hopcount.ca>
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.20.1509211455150.420@bofh.nohats.ca>
References: <20150921172109.19893.qmail@ary.lan> <alpine.LFD.2.20.1509211455150.420@bofh.nohats.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"
X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.1r5103)
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dane/Y1ivPLnhUH7taKkxmVwiJvvnDYg>
Cc: ietf@ietf.org, dane WG list <dane@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [dane] PGP security models, was Summary of IETF LC for draft-ietf-dane-openpgpkey
X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities <dane.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dane>, <mailto:dane-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dane/>
List-Post: <mailto:dane@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dane-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane>, <mailto:dane-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 14:44:20 -0000

Hi Paul,

On 21 Sep 2015, at 15:14, Paul Wouters wrote:

> On Mon, 21 Sep 2015, John Levine wrote:
>
>>> OPENPGP is a data format, WoT is one way to employ that format to
>>> exchange messages.   It is not a *required* way to use OPENPGP.
>>
>> Sure, but it's the way that everyone has used PGP for 20 years,
>> and it's the security model that everyone I know expects when they
>> use PGP keys.
>
> Actually, nmost people I know never use the WoT. They only use keys
> obtained directly from the person they want to exchange encrypted 
> email
> with.

I think most people who use any trust model use the WoT, because that's 
what the common implementations make easy.

I think most people don't use any useful trust model, though. I see a 
lot of "send me your public key in plain text so I can talk privately 
about this thing", but no appreciation for the threat models in such a 
key exchange.


Joe