Re: [dispatch] Proposal to form Internet Wideband Audio Codec WG

[Henry Sinnreich <[e-mail]>]

Spencer,

Yes, your points show exactly why we need a new WG in the IETF chartered specifically for a standard for an Internet voice (and why not video as well) codec.

The _global_ standard nature, royalty free, open source aspects will most likely warm the heart of most Internet folks.

The determining factor will be if there are contributors willing to do the work of writing the I-Ds for the requirements, algorithm, code and last but not least show  measurements about performance. I see signs that we may have very valuable contributions.

We can gage the interest for such a WG by the attendance in the BOF at the 75 IETF in July.
Please just give it a chance.
We may soon be in the fortunate position to finally have an Internet voice codec standard!

Henry


On 5/29/09 9:56 AM, "Spencer Dawkins" <[e-mail]> wrote:

Hi, Henry,

I may have misunderstood Roni's point, but I thought that he was saying that audio codec types don't participate in the IETF today, because the IETF does not develop audio codecs (and AVT is prohibited by charter from producing one, because of a stated belief that we don't have the expertise in the IETF to do this work).

Thanks,

Spencer

----- Original Message -----

From:  Henry  Sinnreich <mailto:[e-mail]>

To: Roni Even <mailto:[e-mail]>  ; Jason  Fischl <mailto:[e-mail]>  ; [e-mail]

Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 10:28  AM

Subject: Re: [dispatch] Proposal to form  Internet Wideband Audio Codec WG


Roni,

Sorry, we have here a fundamental  disagreement.
The IETF is chartered for Internet standards and may or may  not chose solutions that apply to ITU-T networks.
The Internet has  different criteria than ITU-T networks may have.
A worldwide Internet  standard for a wideband codec will be very beneficial  IMO.

Henry


On 5/28/09 9:45 AM, "Roni Even" <[e-mail]>  wrote:


Hi,
Like you mention other SDOs like ITU-T are  doing just that. They have the
expertise to specify, and evaluate the  result. These SDOs can receive
requirements and select a proper codec  based on the requirements.


As for the other reasons:

1.  Defining a codec in the IETF or even in MPEG / ITU-T does not make it  a
mandatory part of a system solution, this is done by other standard  bodies
like 3GPP, ETSI.

2. The IETF, similar to other standard  bodies is not rubber stamping a
specific solution, so you will most  probably see in the final result some
technology that carry  IPR.

3. If this group will be established, you will probably see here  the audio
experts now working in ITU-T arguing the same issues since they  are the
expertise you need and they work for the same companies that are  already
members of IETF.

I think that if you have a specific codec  in mind you  can make it publicly
available maybe with quality  results and standardized in AVT a payload
specification.

BTW: The  ITU is keeping a list of codecs (Not only ITU-T ones) in a table
that  describes their features.

Regards
Roni Even

-----Original  Message-----
From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]]  On Behalf
Of Jason Fischl
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:18 AM
To:  [e-mail]
Subject: [dispatch]  Proposal to form Internet Wideband Audio Codec WG

All,

I would  like to request agenda time inside the DISPATCH meeting to propose
the  formation of a new working group to define a Proposed Standard  wideband
audio codec.

The text of the proposal is below. Comments,  questions, and  suggestions
welcomed.

Regards,
Jason


Internet  Wideband Audio Codec (IWAC)
Mailing Lists: TBD
Chairs: TBD
Area  Directorate: Real Time Applications (RAI)

Purpose:

This new  working group would be chartered with the purpose of collecting
expertise  within the IETF in order to review the design of audio  codecs
specifically for use with the Internet. Unlike other SDOs, these  codecs
would be optimized for use on the Internet, and as much as  possible choose
technology that does not require paying patent  royalties.

The Internet Low Bit Rate Codec (iLBC)  work was done  in AVT but it was felt
that subsequent work should not be done in the AVT  working group. This new
working group will have as its primary purpose  the standardization of a
multi-purpose audio codec that can be used in  various situations on the
Internet. Some of the proposed  Internet-specific requirements include:
* scalable and adaptive bit  rate;
* various sampling rate profiles from narrow-band to  super-wideband;
* scalable complexity;
* low latency; and
*  resilience to packet loss.

There are a number of wide-band capable  codecs defined by other SDOs. For
instance, G.722 is seeing adoption in  Enterprise applications since it is
relatively simple and low-cost to  deploy. However, it has a high, fixed
bitrate and is not appropriate for  mobile applications where spectrum
efficiency is important or in consumer  applications where available
bandwidth is fluctuating or limited. G.722.2  (AMR-wideband) has been adopted
by the 3GPP as a wideband standard for  mobile applications. G.722.2 is
relatively high cost due to patent  royalties and is seeing minimal
deployments outside of mobile handsets  making it challenging to create
wideband experiences on Internet-capable  mobile devices when extending
beyond the mobile network. In other cases,  proprietary codecs are being
adopted which further create islands with no  interoperability unless
widespread transcoding is performed. Transcoding  leads to higher costs and
lower quality.

The goal of this working  group is to define a single codec with multiple
profiles which can be  made available on a wide variety of Internet-capable
devices including  low-power, mobile devices as well as devices capable of
utilizing high  quality, high bitrate audio.

Proposed Deliverables:

1)  Requirements for wideband, Internet audio codec(s).
2) Algorithm  description for wideband, Internet audio codec(s) as  Proposed
Standard.
3) Specification of payload format(s) for defined  codecs as  Proposed
Standard

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