Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path?
Paul Wouters <paul@xelerance.com> Wed, 26 January 2011 18:02 UTC
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Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 13:05:17 -0500
From: Paul Wouters <paul@xelerance.com>
To: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com>
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Cc: Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>, dnsext@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path?
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On Wed, 26 Jan 2011, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > Which CA(s)s would we have to make the products trust? IANA seems to > be using Godaddy today. Is that guaranteed to last forever? If not, > then how is a device supposed to know which CA IANA has chosen at some > time in the future? Do we just have to trust all 1500+ commercial CA? And deal with all the revocations? And how to install new ones, using > what trust? And remember, this is a switch or router, not a browser or > an OS with the "update now" button. > Use a Quorate Root then. > > Multiple Signers, are recognized. A valid key must be counter signed by a quorum of the recognized signers. Maybe we can add even more complexity to this? The path here is extremely clear. It hopes from a common trusted key to new keys via intermediate steps, all of which are signed. To bring in any other outside trusted third party with its own pletora of trust anchor update issues is not solving the problem. You are just moving the problem. Worse, you are moving the problem away from the original trusted parties into a hypothetical bag of other trusted parties with even less clear mandates. > As Ed Lewis points out, these are really tricky trust problems and there are good reasons not to want to trust any monolithic single rooted scheme. Please either specifically mention the reasons, or stop waiving your generalities. DNSSEC is already trusting "monolithic single rooted scheme", so suggesting we destroy that is moot. There is no valid reason to bring in third parties. Let alone insist that validating resolvers need to gain ASN.1 parsers and X.509 trust anchors. Seriously, grab a 10 year old browser and tell me how well this "proven technology" works? How many of those CA's are still valid today? How could we have guaranteed to have picked one that is still active today - provided there is any? We already have a fully functional path of trust, from root key to root key, that is validatable by DNSSEC. > There are much larger International IT efforts than DNSSEC that have collapsed due to failure to agree on this type of issue. Yeah, the Government of Canada's Entrust X.509 scheme comes to mind....... Paul
- [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Stephan Lagerholm
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Brian Dickson
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Tony Finch
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Edward Lewis
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Thierry Moreau
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Tony Finch
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Edward Lewis
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Brian Dickson
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Alex Nicoll
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Stephan Lagerholm
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Joe Abley
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Florian Weimer
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Jakob Schlyter
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Matthew Dempsky
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Florian Weimer
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Florian Weimer
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Brian Dickson
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Joe Abley
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Paul Vixie
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Paul Vixie
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Brian Dickson
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Brian Dickson
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Brian Dickson
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Joe Abley
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? David Conrad
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Florian Weimer
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Joe Abley
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Joe Abley
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Thierry Moreau
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Tony Finch
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Tony Finch
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Joe Abley
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Brian Dickson
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Tony Finch
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Joe Abley
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? W.C.A. Wijngaards
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Joe Abley
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Brian Dickson
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Joe Abley
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Brian Dickson
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Joe Abley
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Joe Abley
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Joe Abley
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Brian Dickson
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Tony Finch
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Tony Finch
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Jakob Schlyter
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Tony Finch
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Jakob Schlyter
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Tony Finch
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Ted Lemon
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path? Florian Weimer