Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path?

Joe Abley <jabley@hopcount.ca> Mon, 31 January 2011 19:59 UTC

Return-Path: <jabley@hopcount.ca>
X-Original-To: dnsext@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsext@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BC873A6C70 for <dnsext@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 11:59:47 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -102.573
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.573 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.026, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6x17eEy5djPw for <dnsext@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 11:59:46 -0800 (PST)
Received: from monster.hopcount.ca (monster.hopcount.ca [216.235.14.38]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BC8C3A6C57 for <dnsext@ietf.org>; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 11:59:46 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [199.212.90.21] (helo=dh21.r2.owls.hopcount.ca) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <jabley@hopcount.ca>) id 1Pk01q-000B6S-UX; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:07:15 +0000
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
From: Joe Abley <jabley@hopcount.ca>
In-Reply-To: <899F4D8E-2E75-44C3-A001-612582209C86@icsi.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:02:55 -0500
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <63AEECED-2D62-4FC4-81C8-87464D37A72E@hopcount.ca>
References: <alpine.LFD.1.10.1101251250040.30991@newtla.xelerance.com> <17A80F45-52CB-43F6-BD4A-3488821F6933@hopcount.ca> <3A1DEE95-8C8E-4C89-97EB-6D8F799ADE25@virtualized.org> <583A62B0-0DBF-469A-AF8A-B81DEDD1E7E2@dotat.at> <86B1D38A-C274-4335-B30E-3C5C0DF05C38@hopcount.ca> <4D45DE93.9090508@vpnc.org> <AANLkTinbjRebooyqWMpZ2oTudruoDSGqgaXXr35WPYVH@mail.gmail.com> <AANLkTikiqe2K4S-dNsyQZ-xp71J4bM11SsahwpxfDKCX@mail.gmail.com> <4C747F08-A9E8-46E6-AE76-0A999A16D276@hopcount.ca> <AANLkTinOtx88vK3mz-w=uw1CnsKwm=c-nTDOsj=5JAPY@mail.gmail.com> <B4F822D3-F4D6-4657-B299-075B89B5CC86@hopcount.ca> <899F4D8E-2E75-44C3-A001-612582209C86@icsi.berkeley.edu>
To: Nicholas Weaver <nweaver@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082)
X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 199.212.90.21
X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jabley@hopcount.ca
X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on monster.hopcount.ca); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Cc: dnsext@ietf.org, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
Subject: Re: [dnsext] historal root keys for upgrade path?
X-BeenThere: dnsext@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: DNS Extensions working group discussion list <dnsext.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsext>, <mailto:dnsext-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dnsext>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsext@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsext-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsext>, <mailto:dnsext-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 19:59:47 -0000

On 2011-01-31, at 14:31, Nicholas Weaver wrote:

> If we have either an algorithm or KSK key compromise, we have a far bigger problem and going to a more human-centric route is probably doable.

The problem space we're considering is that of embedded devices (think 5,000,000 deployed linksys home gateways) for which a human-centric path is effectively not an option. No?

> ESPECIALLY if a failure for the TALINK-like mechanism (which fails for compromise-cases) is 'do leap of faith for the root for NON-secure records', so even then the name lookups etc will still work, only cryptographic trust mechanisms built on top of DNSSEC would fail.

The problem with the TALINK and similar trust-chaining proposals is that in the cases where you really need them, they can't work.

I don't think the scheme I just posted (and have described here before) is particularly elegant, but it has the benefit that it's immediately deployable and doesn't introduce any trust points into the system that aren't already there.


Joe